├── .gitignore ├── incits_letter.adoc ├── wg21_letter.adoc ├── README.adoc ├── LICENSE ├── wg21_letter.html └── incits_letter.html /.gitignore: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | .bin 2 | stylesheets 3 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /incits_letter.adoc: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | = New C++ Charter 2 | :authors: C++ Community 3 | :email: grafikrobot@gmail.com 4 | :revdate: {docdate} 5 | :version-label!: 6 | :reproducible: 7 | :nofooter: 8 | 9 | ++++ 10 | 16 | ++++ 17 | 18 | To Whom It May Concern, 19 | 20 | I am writing asking for consideration towards changes to the wording of the 21 | "INCITS/PL22.16 - Programming Language {CPP} Charter". Which is currently stated as: 22 | 23 | [quote] 24 | ____ 25 | Task Group PL22.16 (formerly J16) is responsible for the technical development of the standard for the {CPP} programming language. The goal of this project is to make it possible for {CPP} programs to be highly portable among different operating systems and across a wide variety of computers. High level of compatibility with the ISO C standard and suitability for the International community are two associated goals established by PL22.16 that will help to extend the useful life of this standard and increase the audience of its users. 26 | 27 | This Task Group is the U.S. TAG to ISO/IEC JTC 1 SC22/WG21. 28 | ____ 29 | 30 | The charter, as written, has served its purpose of directing the group squarely 31 | on advancing the language to exciting heights. But in being direct it has 32 | circumscribed the tasks that PL22.16 can accomplish to problematic lows. 33 | In a time when the language is advancing, the community is struggling to 34 | manage the challenges of the complexity and variability of the tools, 35 | technologies, and systems that make {CPP} possible (i.e. the {CPP} 36 | ecosystem). 37 | 38 | It is time we acknowledge that the continued success of {CPP} is tied not 39 | solely to the language. But that the {CPP} ecosystem and interoperability 40 | within that ecosystem are key to surmounting the challenges of further growth 41 | of the language for the benefit of its users. 42 | 43 | As such we ask that the charter of PL22.16 be explicitly adjusted to encourage 44 | development of standards to support the {CPP} language and ecosystem. 45 | A possible expanded charter: 46 | 47 | [quote] 48 | ____ 49 | Task Group PL22.16 (formerly J16) is responsible for the technical development 50 | of the standard for the {CPP} programming language[.ins]##, supporting tools, 51 | supporting technologies, and supporting systems##. The goal of this project is 52 | to make it possible for {CPP} programs to be highly portable among different 53 | operating systems and across a wide variety of computers. High level of 54 | compatibility with the ISO C standard and suitability for the International 55 | community are two associated goals established by PL22.16 that will help to 56 | extend the useful life of this standard and increase the audience of its users. 57 | 58 | This Task Group is the U.S. TAG to ISO/IEC JTC 1 SC22/WG21. 59 | ____ 60 | 61 | Thank you for the opportunity to voice our concerns and for your consideration 62 | of this matter. 63 | 64 | // If you are a voting member of INCITS/PL22.16 and want to cosign this letter 65 | // please add your name below, on a line by itself, with a parenthetical 66 | // including your company. 67 | 68 | [verse, INCITS/PL22.16 Members] 69 | René Ferdinand Rivera Morell (The {CPP} Alliance) 70 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /wg21_letter.adoc: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | = New C++ Scope 2 | :authors: C++ Community 3 | :email: grafikrobot@gmail.com 4 | :revdate: {docdate} 5 | :version-label!: 6 | :reproducible: 7 | :nofooter: 8 | 9 | ++++ 10 | 16 | ++++ 17 | 18 | To Whom It May Concern, 19 | 20 | We are writing asking for consideration towards changes to the wording of the 21 | "ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG21 STATEMENT OF SCOPE". Which is currently stated as: 22 | 23 | [quote] 24 | ____ 25 | Development and maintenance of ISO/IEC Standards, Technical Specifications, and Technical Reports related to the programming language {CPP}. 26 | ____ 27 | 28 | The scope, as written, has served its purpose of directing the group squarely 29 | on advancing the language to exciting heights. But in being concise and direct 30 | it has circumscribed the tasks that WG21 can accomplish to problematic lows. 31 | In a time when the language is advancing, the community is struggling to manage 32 | the challenges of the complexity and variability of the tools, technologies, 33 | and systems that make {CPP} possible (i.e. the {CPP} ecosystem). 34 | 35 | It is time we acknowledge that the continued success of {CPP} is tied not 36 | solely to the language. But that the {CPP} ecosystem and interoperability 37 | within that ecosystem are key to surmounting the challenges of further growth 38 | of the language for the benefit of its users. 39 | 40 | As such we ask that the scope of {CPP} be explicitly adjusted to encourage 41 | development of standards to support the {CPP} language and ecosystem. 42 | A possible expanded scope: 43 | 44 | [quote] 45 | ____ 46 | Development and maintenance of ISO/IEC Standards, Technical Specifications, and 47 | Technical Reports related to the programming language {CPP}[.ins]##, 48 | supporting tools, supporting technologies, and supporting systems##. 49 | ____ 50 | 51 | Thank you for the opportunity to voice our concerns and for your consideration 52 | of this matter. 53 | 54 | // If you are a voting member of JTC1/SC22/WG21 and want to cosign this letter 55 | // please add your name below, on a line by itself, with a parenthetical 56 | // including your national body and company. 57 | 58 | [verse, JTC1/SC22/WG21 Members] 59 | René Ferdinand Rivera Morell (US - The {CPP} Alliance) 60 | 61 | // If you are a member of the larger C++ language community and want to cosign 62 | // this letter please add your name below, on a line by itself. You may also 63 | // add a parenthetical with your country and/or company. 64 | 65 | [verse, C++ Users] 66 | Miro Knejp - {CPP} Consultant / Mentor / Engineer 67 | Jayesh Badwaik - {CPP} Developer 68 | Amin Yahyaabadi (@aminya) - Robotics Control Engineer 69 | Ben Craig - NI. Vice Chair of WG21 Library Evolution 70 | Chad Royal - {CPP} Developer 71 | Bret Brown - {CPP} Developer 72 | Deniz Bahadir - {CPP} and CMake Software Engineer 73 | Pato Sandana - {CPP} Developer 74 | Erik Rosengren - {CPP} Developer 75 | Hedayat Vatankhah - {CPP} Developer 76 | Staffan Tjernstróm - {CPP} Developer. Finance Co-chair of WG21 SG 14 77 | Rob Irving - {CPP} Developer, Host of CppCast 78 | Harald Achitz - {CPP} Developer, build engineer, convenor Swedish JTC1/SC22 mirror 79 | Salim Pamukcu - {CPP} Self Learning Student 80 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /README.adoc: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | = New C++ Scope 2 | 3 | == 2022-03-10 Update 4 | 5 | At the end of last week, i.e. 2022-03-03, I sent the two letter on to INCITS 6 | and WG21. I am leaving the WG21 letter open for anyone who wants to sign it 7 | if they so choose. 8 | 9 | In the week since the INCTIS letter request was forward to the members 10 | is being discussed. Although there's no definitive resolution yet, there 11 | are some assertions from the conversation that are interesting: 12 | 13 | * The current charter/scope allows for working on {CPP} Ecosystem topics. 14 | Example given is the SG15 work. 15 | 16 | * The International Standard ISO/IEC 14882 only allows referring to concepts 17 | expressible in the virtual machine as defined in the standard. 18 | 19 | * The IS ISO/IEC 14882 could change to allow for things like the debugging 20 | support functionality (https://wg21.link/P2546) by adding the appropriate 21 | definitional foundation. 22 | 23 | Those are my brief interpretations of the conversations so far. There are 24 | additional questions still up in the air. For example, is it possible to 25 | create tooling file format International Standards outside of ISO/IEC 14882. 26 | 27 | == About 28 | 29 | Over the years of my involvement in the {CPP} standardization process there 30 | has been a desire, and attempts, to standardize aspects of {CPP} that fall 31 | outside of just the language. For example: build communication and 32 | description, compiler options, package descriptions, compile database 33 | descriptions, module dependency specification, module discoverability, 34 | existence of DLLs. The response to considering those aspects has been either 35 | "it's out of scope" or "we can only suggest" because the current scope does 36 | not acknowledge that there is a {CPP} ecosystem of build systems, package 37 | managers, linkers, files, and so on. This position has not only hindered 38 | progress in those aspects, it has driven away contributors that wished 39 | to work towards harmony in such systems. 40 | 41 | As the {CPP} language continues to grow in use and capabilities, it is 42 | paramount that we consider putting it methods to manage the 43 | complexity of supporting what we can achieve with the language. 44 | 45 | _Why choose to add the specific word "supporting tools, supporting 46 | technologies, and supporting systems"?_ 47 | 48 | Like the current {CPP} scope (or charter) it hopes to define a category 49 | of specifications without overly limiting what can be done in the future 50 | as it is not possible to predict what will be needed. At the same time 51 | using the key words "supporting" limits the realm squarely in the 52 | {CPP} language. 53 | 54 | Here "tools" pertains to compilers, linkers, build systems, 55 | package managers, etc that work together to provide us with resulting 56 | libraries, applications, and packages. 57 | 58 | While "technologies" and "systems" refers to the broader space where {CPP} 59 | code executes and interacts with. 60 | 61 | _Isn't this too broad of a statement? You could do anything in that scope._ 62 | 63 | While technically true that almost anything is possible in choosing those words, 64 | the eventual acceptance of any proposal that touches in these expanded areas 65 | still has to survive the consensus based standardization process. Which means 66 | that any new standard specifications will provide alternative views and 67 | analysis taking into account the many voices of users and tool implementors 68 | before advancing. The addition of these words opens the door to taking the 69 | first step of having a proposal added to the queue to be debated. 70 | 71 | _Why does WG21 need to specify this expanded area standardization? Why not 72 | coordinate with some other standardization body?_ 73 | 74 | It would be possible to do many of the specifications that one wants and 75 | needs outside of WG21. But by placing the responsibility outside of WG21 76 | first creates friction between likely incoherent sets of goals. Such 77 | incoherence could be resolved with coordination, but that will increase the 78 | burden on both, or more, organizations. I.e. you would end up achieving 79 | significantly less with significantly more effort. The current arrangement 80 | of partitioned field expertise works well in reducing the burden for most 81 | in the committee when working on standardization. The hope is that the 82 | standards available with this expanded scope would work alongside and in 83 | parallel to the current process. Instead of increasing the additional 84 | burdens greatly. 85 | 86 | == JTC1/SC22/WG21 87 | 88 | Thank you for your interest in this open letter to expand the scope of 89 | {CPP}, i.e. the ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG21. If you would like to co-sign the 90 | letter please open a pull-request to add your name. In the letter there are 91 | two sections: 92 | 93 | JTC1/SC22/WG21 Members:: 94 | If you are a voting member of the {CPP} committee, aka WG21, you can add you name 95 | to this section. 96 | 97 | {CPP} Users:: 98 | If you one of the awesome {CPP} users that just loves the language you can add 99 | your name to this section. 100 | 101 | link:https://raw.githack.com/grafikrobot/cpp_scope/main/wg21_letter.html[Read Letter] 102 | 103 | link:https://github.com/grafikrobot/cpp_scope/edit/main/wg21_letter.adoc[Co-sign Letter] 104 | by editing in your own branch and subsequently creating a pull-request from 105 | your branch. 106 | 107 | This letter will only be open until March 2, 2022 8:00 AM Central Standard 108 | Time. At which point it will be sent to the WG21 Convenor for consideration. 109 | 110 | == INCITS/PL22.16 111 | 112 | If you are a member of INCITS/PL22.16 you may also consider co-signing a 113 | corresponding letter to the US national body {CPP} group. 114 | 115 | link:https://raw.githack.com/grafikrobot/cpp_scope/main/incits_letter.html[Read Letter] 116 | 117 | link:https://github.com/grafikrobot/cpp_scope/edit/main/incits_letter.adoc[Co-sign Letter] 118 | by editing in your own branch and subsequently creating a pull-request from 119 | your branch. 120 | 121 | This letter will only be open until February 28, 2022 8:00 AM Central Standard 122 | Time. At which point it will be sent to at least the INCITS/PL22.16 Chair. This 123 | period is shorter than the above WG21 letter to fit within the time limit of 124 | the currently open comment period for review of the charter. 125 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /LICENSE: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | Creative Commons Legal Code 2 | 3 | CC0 1.0 Universal 4 | 5 | CREATIVE COMMONS CORPORATION IS NOT A LAW FIRM AND DOES NOT PROVIDE 6 | LEGAL SERVICES. DISTRIBUTION OF THIS DOCUMENT DOES NOT CREATE AN 7 | ATTORNEY-CLIENT RELATIONSHIP. CREATIVE COMMONS PROVIDES THIS 8 | INFORMATION ON AN "AS-IS" BASIS. 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Affirmer understands and acknowledges that Creative Commons is not a 120 | party to this document and has no duty or obligation with respect to 121 | this CC0 or use of the Work. 122 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /wg21_letter.html: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | New C++ Scope 10 | 751 | 752 | 753 | 761 |
762 | 768 |
769 |

To Whom It May Concern,

770 |
771 |
772 |

We are writing asking for consideration towards changes to the wording of the 773 | "ISO/IEC JTC1/SC22/WG21 STATEMENT OF SCOPE". Which is currently stated as:

774 |
775 |
776 |
777 |
778 |

Development and maintenance of ISO/IEC Standards, Technical Specifications, and Technical Reports related to the programming language C++.

779 |
780 |
781 |
782 |
783 |

The scope, as written, has served its purpose of directing the group squarely 784 | on advancing the language to exciting heights. But in being concise and direct 785 | it has circumscribed the tasks that WG21 can accomplish to problematic lows. 786 | In a time when the language is advancing, the community is struggling to manage 787 | the challenges of the complexity and variability of the tools, technologies, 788 | and systems that make C++ possible (i.e. the C++ ecosystem).

789 |
790 |
791 |

It is time we acknowledge that the continued success of C++ is tied not 792 | solely to the language. But that the C++ ecosystem and interoperability 793 | within that ecosystem are key to surmounting the challenges of further growth 794 | of the language for the benefit of its users.

795 |
796 |
797 |

As such we ask that the scope of C++ be explicitly adjusted to encourage 798 | development of standards to support the C++ language and ecosystem. 799 | A possible expanded scope:

800 |
801 |
802 |
803 |
804 |

Development and maintenance of ISO/IEC Standards, Technical Specifications, and 805 | Technical Reports related to the programming language C++, 806 | supporting tools, supporting technologies, and supporting systems.

807 |
808 |
809 |
810 |
811 |

Thank you for the opportunity to voice our concerns and for your consideration 812 | of this matter.

813 |
814 |
815 |
René Ferdinand Rivera Morell (US - The C++ Alliance)
816 |
817 | — JTC1/SC22/WG21 Members 818 |
819 |
820 |
821 |
Miro Knejp - C++ Consultant / Mentor / Engineer
822 | Jayesh Badwaik - C++ Developer
823 | Amin Yahyaabadi (@aminya) - Robotics Control Engineer
824 | Ben Craig - NI.  Vice Chair of WG21 Library Evolution
825 | Chad Royal - C++ Developer
826 | Bret Brown - C++ Developer
827 | Deniz Bahadir - C++ and CMake Software Engineer
828 | Pato Sandana - C++ Developer
829 | Erik Rosengren - C++ Developer
830 | Hedayat Vatankhah - C++ Developer
831 | Staffan Tjernstróm - C++ Developer. Finance Co-chair of WG21 SG 14
832 | Rob Irving - C++ Developer, Host of CppCast
833 | Harald Achitz - C++ Developer, build engineer, convenor Swedish JTC1/SC22 mirror
834 | Salim Pamukcu - C++ Self Learning Student
835 |
836 | — C++ Users 837 |
838 |
839 |
840 | 841 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /incits_letter.html: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | New C++ Charter 10 | 751 | 752 | 753 | 761 |
762 | 768 |
769 |

To Whom It May Concern,

770 |
771 |
772 |

I am writing asking for consideration towards changes to the wording of the 773 | "INCITS/PL22.16 - Programming Language C++ Charter". Which is currently stated as:

774 |
775 |
776 |
777 |
778 |

Task Group PL22.16 (formerly J16) is responsible for the technical development of the standard for the C++ programming language. The goal of this project is to make it possible for C++ programs to be highly portable among different operating systems and across a wide variety of computers. High level of compatibility with the ISO C standard and suitability for the International community are two associated goals established by PL22.16 that will help to extend the useful life of this standard and increase the audience of its users.

779 |
780 |
781 |

This Task Group is the U.S. TAG to ISO/IEC JTC 1 SC22/WG21.

782 |
783 |
784 |
785 |
786 |

The charter, as written, has served its purpose of directing the group squarely 787 | on advancing the language to exciting heights. But in being direct it has 788 | circumscribed the tasks that PL22.16 can accomplish to problematic lows. 789 | In a time when the language is advancing, the community is struggling to 790 | manage the challenges of the complexity and variability of the tools, 791 | technologies, and systems that make C++ possible (i.e. the C++ 792 | ecosystem).

793 |
794 |
795 |

It is time we acknowledge that the continued success of C++ is tied not 796 | solely to the language. But that the C++ ecosystem and interoperability 797 | within that ecosystem are key to surmounting the challenges of further growth 798 | of the language for the benefit of its users.

799 |
800 |
801 |

As such we ask that the charter of PL22.16 be explicitly adjusted to encourage 802 | development of standards to support the C++ language and ecosystem. 803 | A possible expanded charter:

804 |
805 |
806 |
807 |
808 |

Task Group PL22.16 (formerly J16) is responsible for the technical development 809 | of the standard for the C++ programming language, supporting tools, 810 | supporting technologies, and supporting systems. The goal of this project is 811 | to make it possible for C++ programs to be highly portable among different 812 | operating systems and across a wide variety of computers. High level of 813 | compatibility with the ISO C standard and suitability for the International 814 | community are two associated goals established by PL22.16 that will help to 815 | extend the useful life of this standard and increase the audience of its users.

816 |
817 |
818 |

This Task Group is the U.S. TAG to ISO/IEC JTC 1 SC22/WG21.

819 |
820 |
821 |
822 |
823 |

Thank you for the opportunity to voice our concerns and for your consideration 824 | of this matter.

825 |
826 |
827 |
René Ferdinand Rivera Morell (The C++ Alliance)
828 |
829 | — INCITS/PL22.16 Members 830 |
831 |
832 |
833 | 834 | --------------------------------------------------------------------------------