├── Ideas.md ├── README.md ├── charter ├── CHARTER.md ├── README.md └── original │ ├── GHC.X.hackage proposal.docx │ ├── Haskell Foundation Stability Working Group.docx │ ├── Managing Change.docx │ ├── README.md │ ├── SWG call 2022-10-24.docx │ ├── Stability working group 13 Dec 2021.docx │ ├── Stability working group call 2022-01-10.docx │ └── agenda-2021-12-13.docx ├── doc └── CHARTER.md ├── meetings ├── 2021-12-13.md ├── 2022-01-10.md ├── 2022-01-24.mkd ├── 2022-02-07.md ├── 2022-02-21.md ├── 2022-03-07.md ├── 2022-03-21.md ├── 2022-04-04.md ├── 2022-04-18.md ├── 2022-05-02.md ├── 2022-05-16.md ├── 2022-05-30.md ├── 2022-06-13.md ├── 2022-06-27.md ├── 2022-07-11.md ├── 2022-07-25.md ├── 2022-08-08.md ├── 2022-09-19.md ├── 2022-10-03.md ├── 2022-10-17.md ├── 2022-10-31.md ├── 2022-11-14.md ├── 2022-11-28.md ├── 2022-12-12.md ├── 2023-01-09.md ├── 2023-01-23.md ├── 2023-02-06.md ├── 2023-02-20.md ├── 2023-03-06.md ├── 2023-03-20.md ├── 2023-04-03.md ├── 2023-04-17.md ├── 2023-05-01.md ├── 2023-05-15.md ├── 2023-06-12.md ├── 2023-06-26.md ├── 2023-07-10.md ├── 2023-07-24.md ├── 2023-08-07.md ├── 2023-08-21.md ├── 2023-09-04.md ├── 2023-09-18.md ├── 2023-10-02.md ├── 2023-10-16.md ├── 2023-10-30.md ├── 2023-11-13.md ├── 2023-11-27.md ├── 2023-12-11.md ├── 2024-01-08.md ├── 2024-01-22.md ├── 2024-02-05.md ├── 2024-02-19.md ├── 2024-03-04.md ├── 2024-03-18.md ├── 2024-04-01.md ├── 2024-04-15.md ├── 2024-04-29.md ├── 2024-05-13.md ├── 2024-05-27.md ├── 2024-06-24.md ├── 2024-07-08.md ├── 2024-07-22.md ├── 2024-08-05.md ├── 2024-08-19.md ├── 2024-09-16.md ├── 2024-09-30.md ├── 2024-10-14.md ├── 2024-10-28.md ├── 2024-11-11.md ├── 2024-11-25.md ├── 2024-12-09.md ├── 2025-01-06.md ├── 2025-01-20.md ├── 2025-02-03.md ├── 2025-02-17.md ├── 2025-03-03.md ├── 2025-03-31.md ├── 2025-04-14.md ├── 2025-04-28.md ├── README.md └── docx │ ├── 2022-02-07.docx │ └── 2022-02-21.docx └── proposals ├── README.md ├── ghc-x-hackage.mkd └── work-in-progress-proposals.md /Ideas.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | # Ideas 2 | 3 | This document is to serve as an incubation area of ideas to enhance the community stability or the 4 | ability to build from the community in a stable fashion. 5 | 6 | # Current Ideas 7 | 8 | ## Add opt-in PVP enforcement to Hackage 9 | This would require changes from the matrix builder. An additional important component would be to 10 | display if a package has opted-in. 11 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /README.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | # Haskell Foundation Stability Working Group 2 | 3 | This is the home of the Haskell Foundation's Stability Working Group (SWG), a group for studying and 4 | promoting stability in the Haskell ecosystem. 5 | 6 | ## Our Charter 7 | 8 | See [our charter](charter/CHARTER.md) for a statement of the purpose of the group and this 9 | [Haskell Discourse 10 | posting](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/haskell-foundation-stability-working-group/4026) 11 | for the announcement of the group. 12 | 13 | ## Contacting Us 14 | 15 | To email the current members, send an email to mailto:stability@haskell.foundation 16 | 17 | ## Meeting Minutes 18 | 19 | Minutes from our meetings are available in the [meetings](meetings/) directory of this repository. 20 | 21 | ## Current Members 22 | 23 | - HF 24 | - Simon Peyton Jones 25 | - Alexander Bernauer 26 | - Chris Dornan 27 | - David Thrane Christiansen 28 | - Ecosystem 29 | - GHC: Ben Gamari 30 | - Stackage, Hackage: Adam Bergmark 31 | - Cabal: Mikolaj Konarski 32 | - HLS, Meta: Pepe Iborra 33 | - head.hackage: Ryan Scott (cannot attend calls) 34 | - Library authors 35 | - Tom Sydney Kerckhove 36 | - Viktor Dukhovni 37 | - Educators 38 | - Consultants 39 | - Trevis Elser 40 | - Industrial users 41 | - Neil Mitchell 42 | - Michael Peyton Jones 43 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /charter/README.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | # Charter 2 | 3 | This folder contains the current agreed charter plus any related foundational documents. 4 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /charter/original/GHC.X.hackage proposal.docx: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- https://raw.githubusercontent.com/haskellfoundation/stability/fcea3af2b6efe8453ca5ad204827aba94aa50d31/charter/original/GHC.X.hackage proposal.docx -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /charter/original/Haskell Foundation Stability Working Group.docx: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- https://raw.githubusercontent.com/haskellfoundation/stability/fcea3af2b6efe8453ca5ad204827aba94aa50d31/charter/original/Haskell Foundation Stability Working Group.docx -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /charter/original/Managing Change.docx: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- https://raw.githubusercontent.com/haskellfoundation/stability/fcea3af2b6efe8453ca5ad204827aba94aa50d31/charter/original/Managing Change.docx -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /charter/original/README.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | # Original Docs 2 | 3 | This folder contains a snapshot of the docs in the Haskell Foundation Google drive on 2021-01-04. 4 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /charter/original/SWG call 2022-10-24.docx: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- https://raw.githubusercontent.com/haskellfoundation/stability/fcea3af2b6efe8453ca5ad204827aba94aa50d31/charter/original/SWG call 2022-10-24.docx -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /charter/original/Stability working group 13 Dec 2021.docx: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- https://raw.githubusercontent.com/haskellfoundation/stability/fcea3af2b6efe8453ca5ad204827aba94aa50d31/charter/original/Stability working group 13 Dec 2021.docx -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /charter/original/Stability working group call 2022-01-10.docx: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- https://raw.githubusercontent.com/haskellfoundation/stability/fcea3af2b6efe8453ca5ad204827aba94aa50d31/charter/original/Stability working group call 2022-01-10.docx -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /charter/original/agenda-2021-12-13.docx: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- https://raw.githubusercontent.com/haskellfoundation/stability/fcea3af2b6efe8453ca5ad204827aba94aa50d31/charter/original/agenda-2021-12-13.docx -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /doc/CHARTER.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 |  2 | **Haskell Foundation Stability Working Group** 3 | 4 | Charter, December 2021 5 | 6 | ## 1. Purpose of the working group 7 | Haskell serves (at least) two roles: 8 | 9 | * [A] As a production language used by thousands of developers to get their day job done. 10 | * [B] As a research language, exploring the bleeding edge of statically typed, purely functional programming. 11 | 12 | The breaking changes necessary for (B) impose substantial costs on (A), so there is a real tension between these two goals. This tension can leave group (A) frustrated as an apparently endless stream of changes; and group (B) frustrated at the brake on progress that (A) imposes. 13 | 14 | And yet many of the features developed by (B) are wildly popular with (A). No one is advocating freezing Haskell, halting all further language development. Indeed most of the proposals considered by the GHC Steering Committee (over 400 of them in the last three years) come from industry not academia. 15 | 16 | This tension cannot be removed entirely. The goal of the working group is to mitigate its worst consequences, principally by improving communication between the various parties involved so that everyone’s expectations are aligned. 17 | 18 | One alternative would be to move to a policy of 100% stability, especially of the language itself and its APIs; that is, no breaking changes. There are other language ecosystems that do this. But the Haskell Foundation believes that would be a mistake to seek 100% stability, a mistake that would kill off the ferment of intellectual change, deep research, and innovative (and genuinely useful) features that characterise the Haskell ecosystem. Haskell is a thought leader, and must continue to grow and change. 19 | 20 | **So then the question becomes one of how to manage change, and mitigate its costs. That is what the working group seeks to do.** 21 | 22 | ## 2. Members 23 | The Stability Working Group currently has the following members: 24 | 25 | - HF 26 | - Simon Peyton Jones 27 | - Alexander Bernauer 28 | - Chris Dornan 29 | - Andrew Boardman (Exec Director) 30 | - Ecosystem 31 | - CLC: Bodigrim 32 | - CLC: Oleg Grenus 33 | - GHC: Ben Gamari 34 | - Stackage, Hackage: Adam Bergmark 35 | - Cabal: Mikolaj Konarski 36 | - HLS, Meta: Pepe Iborra 37 | - head.hackage: Ryan Scott (cannot attend calls) 38 | - Library authors 39 | - Dmitrii Kovanikov (package maintainer -- sent an email to the board) 40 | - Tom Sydney Kerckhove (developer -- sent an email to the board) 41 | - Viktor Dukhovni 42 | - Consultants 43 | - Trevis Elser 44 | - Industrial users 45 | - Neil Mitchell 46 | 47 | ## 3. Plan 48 | - Talk to the stakeholders and determine their priorities. 49 | - Define our initial scope — what the core ecosystem is. 50 | - Develop a plan that will, we hope, help to mitigate the tension between stability and change. 51 | - As a first step in this plan, to develop, in consultation with relevant stakeholders, a clear Managing Change policy. The policy might cover 52 | - The kinds of breakage we can expect to see 53 | - When breakage can occur 54 | - What ‘tools’ and guidance should be expected with each breaking change. (Here we mean tool in the most general sense, ranging from a detailed explanation of the change to an actual tool to help with migration.) 55 | 56 | Here are some ideas of the kind of things that might be in that plan: 57 | 58 | - Be clear about what constitutes a “breaking change”. Some changes are much, much more disruptive than others, and it may help not to treat them all identically. (See e.g. [this thread](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/is-adding-hascallstack-a-breaking-change/3696).) 59 | - To gather and record all scheduled breaking changes to the core ecosystem on an issue tracker 60 | - To see what we can do to derive a schedule that satisfies all of the stakeholders — entirely voluntarily; everybody functions as before, just hopefully with more information. 61 | - To communicate the schedule and what we are doing to the wider community in order to minimise 'surprises'. 62 | - On the basis of what we find, propose any extra mechanisms that would make all of this easier. 63 | - Another straw-man from SPJ. A new release of GHC often leads to a wave of trivial-but-necessary package upgrades (e.g. a new export from package X forces a ‘hiding’ clause in package Y, and hence a minor version bump; that in turn forces package Z to widen its version bounds. etc). The GHC team (and friends) already implement these changes as an overlay in head.hackage, to allow testing of GHC. Idea: on an opt-in basis invite package authors to pre-approve these changes, so they can all be implemented on a single day, alongside the GHC release, without being bottlenecked on the serial availability of package authors. 64 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2022-01-10.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | **Agenda for call 2022-01-10** 2 | 3 | \* SWG needs to go public: what do we need to do? *(Advertise the group 4 | and its charter in the usual social media channels, especially Discourse 5 | and Reddit, with the charter in a GitHub repo. CD to do.)* 6 | 7 | \* We agreed in the last meeting that we should be tracking upcoming 8 | breaking changes to the 9 | 10 | ecosystem. How do we go about doing this? *(Gentle pushback from a 11 | limited discussion of this proposal, contrary to opinion expressed on 12 | previous call in December.)* 13 | 14 | \* Do we need a better definition of breaking change than that provided 15 | by the PVP? 16 | 17 | *(This does not appear to be a priority issue.)* 18 | 19 | \* Discussion of /Adapting to a new version of GHC, way faster/ (see 20 | below for link): 21 | 22 | \+ Do we want to do it? *(Probably, but starting with a simpler scheme 23 | that focuses on making the patches available as an overlay -- what this 24 | space.)* 25 | 26 | \+ How much do we do? *(To be discussed on the next call.)* 27 | 28 | **Discussion points from the meeting:** 29 | 30 | - "Fellow Jitster"/Bodigrim says that he'd prefer GHC to break stuff 31 | > less often. Acknowledges that 100% back-compat is not desirable. 32 | > SPJ asks for a dozen concrete examples to illustrate what Bodigrim 33 | > has in mind. 34 | 35 | - Pepe thinks we'll always have such changes. More predictable 36 | > schedule would be helpful. 37 | 38 | - Syd suggested a one-version back-compat policy. (SPJ: not sure what 39 | > this means.) 40 | 41 | - Keeping up with GHC proposals is work. (All agree.) 42 | 43 | - Better *signalling* of breaking changes might be helpful. 44 | 45 | - GHC.X.hackage enables volunteers to contribute; this is good. 46 | 47 | - Another idea: 48 | 49 | - Annual LTS release \-- lower the cost on library authors by 50 | > expecting them mainly to update to the LTS release 51 | 52 | - Plus six-monthly bleeding-edge release? Supported principally by 53 | > GHC.X.hackage. Some participants saw no point in this. 54 | 55 | - Who might dislike a slower release cadence? 56 | 57 | - Users waiting for critical fixes \[but should they not be 58 | > backported?\] 59 | 60 | - GHC authors wanting to get their latest feature in 61 | 62 | > Idea: the Stability Working Group could conduct some kind of opinion 63 | > gathering to discover what release cadence the community would like. 64 | 65 | - Andrew. If we could have a yearly **dependable rhythm** where you 66 | > know the target dates well ahead of time, it means you can trim 67 | > back the scope of the release to make the dates with the quality 68 | > level you want, rather than trying to stabilize whatever can get 69 | > into the main branch before you fork. 70 | 71 | - Maybe GHC could prioritise *predictability* (timing wise) more 72 | > highly, even if it means making releases with known bugs. 73 | 74 | - Chris: should the stability working group gather a record of 75 | > breaking changes? And maybe guidance about how to adapt. SPJ: 76 | > danger of over-reach here, and doing something we'll find it hard 77 | > to sustain; need to start with something modest and achievable. 78 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2022-01-24.mkd: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | # 24 Jan 2022 2 | 3 | * Update on GHC.X.hackage proposal 4 | * Update on advertising the group 5 | * Discussion of next steps 6 | 7 | ## What are we going to do? 8 | 9 | I (Chris) think we have agreed that the key people of concern are the OSS package maintainers working in their free time. We should care about them, even from the perspective of commercial use, because the health of the ecosystem is critically dependent on them and their time is in short supply. (Commercial users are freeloading off them of course, so this really makes tons of sense.) 10 | 11 | Although we all like the idea of stability, scratch an OSS developer and you will very quickly 12 | realise that, while they might be very keen on the *idea* of stability, they are not so hot on the *causes* of stability, unless those causes are being applied to *other* developers, because of 13 | course those causes entail processes that will inevitably check the disruptive changes that they might wish to make. 14 | 15 | We have seen this quite clearly in our meetings (and other calls I have been on) where I think every single attempt to get moving on or discuss a proposal gets shot down with varying degrees of grace, humour and rationality. 16 | 17 | ## From which I conclude 18 | 19 | I think there is no point at all in trying to force the issue top-down on the community. There is 20 | clearly no appetite whatsoever for intrusive measures and the lifetime of any attempt to put them in place will be nasty, brutish, and short. 21 | 22 | ## However... 23 | 24 | I do think this issue is nevertheless important for the long-term health and flourishing of the 25 | Haskell ecosystem. I predict that we are going to see more flare-ups around disruptive proposals in 26 | the future. (I even have my eyes on a couple.) 27 | 28 | ## What I (Chris) would like to do 29 | 30 | * We continue to meet regularly (say, approximately fortnightly) to discuss topics of interest related to the stability of the Haskell ecosystem. 31 | * We collect and document scheduled disruptive changes to the ecosystem. 32 | * We discuss those changes on the calls. 33 | * Any initiatives that require any more than this (like the GHC.X.hackage proposal) gets spun off into a separate activity. 34 | * People are free to attend the calls as their interest and availability dictates. If there is no appetite for these discussions then we can mothball the group or disband it altogether. 35 | 36 | Note this proposed course of action is totally non-disruptive. Nobody is being asked to even 37 | join the calls if they have better things to do, and I am proposing that we merely discuss upcoming disruptions rather than review them. (Though, those that have been paying attention will realise that 'discussion' was really all I was aiming for all along.) 38 | 39 | What do y'all think? 40 | 41 | 42 | ## Notes of the meeting 43 | ### Present 44 | 45 | Andrew Boardman, Ben Gamari, Chris Dornan, Michael PJ, Mikolaj Konarski, Trevis Elser, Adam Bergmark, Fellow Jitster = Bodigrim 46 | 47 | 48 | ### Actions 49 | 50 | * Continue to meet :-). No one thinks this is a waste of time. 51 | * Discuss upcoming GHC releases, their timing, and their content (esp breaking changes) 52 | * Action **Chris**: establish a GitHub repo to put minutes, proposals, and other collateral. Migrate existing docs into it. 53 | * Here's the repo: https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability 54 | * Action **Chris**: announce our existence, point to the repo. This week! Current charter is here. 55 | * Action **Chris**: talk to Jasper about how to create a Category (under HF) in Discourse. (Maybe rename the existing "Working Group" as "HF birth working group".) 56 | * Action **Trevis**: Collect the previous ideas for ways to help the community into a document somehow. 57 | * Action **Ben**: Progress the head.Hackage proposal. 58 | * Move into the repo. 59 | * Some fixes to head.hackage itself 60 | * Polish the proposal; agree; and advertise. 61 | * (The working group agreed the direction of travel.) 62 | * Next: meeting, agree final words before going to the community. 63 | 64 | **We discussed the GHC.X.hackage proposal** 65 | 66 | If the current version is A-4.5, what should the version in GHC.X.hackage be? 67 | * A-4.5? 68 | * A-4.5.0.1? 69 | 70 | Problems with A-4.5 71 | * It's a lie. It isn't exactly A-4.5. It's "A-4.5 from GHC.X.hackage". 72 | * If you just naively read a Cabal install plan, you might think it used "the" A-4.5. 73 | 74 | Problems with A-4.5 75 | * It might still be a lie: we may be forced to change API 76 | * The author might release A-4.5.0.1, but GHC.X.hackage would overlay it. 77 | 78 | **We concluded that we should stick with "no version bump" in the overlay, at least for now.** But the proposal should spell this out. 79 | 80 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2022-03-07.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | # SWG 2022-03-07 Agenda 2 | 3 | - Update on the GHC.X.hackage proposal 4 | - Update on GHC tick-tock releases 5 | - Update on [Cabal and Cabal-syntax split](https://github.com/haskell/cabal/pull/7620#issuecomment-914180574,%20%20%20%20%20https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/7974) 6 | - Look at proposal for helping aeson transition seen at [aeson #932](https://github.com/haskell/aeson/pull/932) and [stability #9](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/issues/9) 7 | - Discuss Maintainership standards [stability #7](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/issues/7) 8 | - Discuss focus on GHC vs the rest of the community 9 | 10 | ## Notes 11 | 12 | 13 | - Trevis taking over as chair -- including turning these notes into our Github record and publishing to Discourse. Thank you! 14 | - Don’t forget haskell cafe 15 | 16 | 17 | - HF has made an offer to a GHC DevOps person; they may not be able to start for some months, but it's a big step forward. 18 | 19 | 20 | - GHC.X.Hackage proposal. [HF Tech Track proposal](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) submitted by Ben. 21 | - ToDo: Ben will make a Discourse post about it. 22 | - Seeking community feedback and consensus; and in due course community participation in creating GHC.X.Hackage patches, parties, hackathons. 23 | - Holding the token: Ben. 24 | 25 | 26 | - GHC tick-tock releases. [Sketch proposal here.](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/2aHzr6aTQEiDlNCliKaCYg#) 27 | - Thought: Make a HF Tech Track proposal? 28 | - As a way to seek community feedback and consensus 29 | - Make explicit: not seeking funding. 30 | - Perhaps say: more patch-level releases, even just with documentation fixes. 31 | - Holding the token: Ben. 32 | 33 | 34 | - Cabal/cabal-syntax. 35 | - Cabal folk have agreed to re-export all of 'cabal-syntax' via 'cabal', to reduce discontinuities. 36 | - Thinking about how to encourage/incentivise clients who only use the cabal-syntax API to depend on cabal-syntax not cabal. 37 | - We can now drop this from our agenda, with thanks to the cabal folk for being so receptive. 38 | 39 | 40 | - Learning from package releases document, and aeson 41 | - Hoping to incrementally develop this document. 42 | - We won't publicise it (except via these meeting notes) until we have a few more case studies, so it seems less of a criticism of aeson (which it isn't). 43 | - Adam will talk to Oleg about getting a migration guide and shim package done. 44 | 45 | 46 | - Package standards (Richard's proposal) 47 | - Idea: policing such a system might be hard; a self-certifying system might be less hard. 48 | - Invite Richard to seek feedback from the community on Discourse that can ultimately lead, or not, to a HF TT Proposal. 49 | - Which groups care the most, authors? Users? nobody? 50 | - We can use this level of interest to guide how vigorously to pursue this. 51 | - Holding the token: Trevis 52 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2022-03-21.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | # SWG 2022-03-21 2 | ## Agenda 3 | 4 | - A couple of administrative things: 5 | - How much editorializing do we want when posting to discourse/haskell-cafe? 6 | - Can we use a collaborative markdown tool for the agenda/notes in the future? 7 | - Use Ben’s HedgeDoc in the future 8 | 9 | - Update on the GHC.X.hackage https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27 10 | - Update on GHC tick-tock releases: [Sketch proposal here](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/2aHzr6aTQEiDlNCliKaCYg#) 11 | - Update on [(Richard's proposal - Maintainership standards)](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/issues/7) 12 | - Language/compiler features to help stability 13 | - [deprecation mechanisms · Wiki · Glasgow Haskell Compiler / GHC](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/design/deprecation-mechanisms) 14 | - [local warning pragmas · Wiki · Glasgow Haskell Compiler / GHC](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/design/local-warning-pragmas) 15 | - [User defined Type Warnings (#17027) · Issues · Glasgow Haskell Compiler / GHC · GitLab](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/17027) 16 | - API breakage policy [[Opaleye's]](http://h2.jaguarpaw.co.uk/posts/opaleyes-api-breakage-policy/) and creating a curated list of them [e.g. Chris Done's Immutable Publishing Policy] 17 | - GHC 9.4 breaking changes 18 | 19 | ## Notes 20 | 21 | Quote from the HF Tech Track proposal process: 22 | ``` 23 | Before submitting a HFTP, it is required that you perform necessary preparations: 24 | - Discuss your idea on the Haskell.org Discourse. Currently, we suggest cross-posting on the Haskell Foundation Slack for higher volume commentary. Create a Discourse topic under the category "Haskell Foundation", that starts with "Pre-HFTP” and briefly describe what you would like to change and why you think it’s a good idea. 25 | 26 | - Proposing your ideas on the Discourse is not an optional step. For every change to the ecosystem, it is important to engage in due diligence with the community and relevant stakeholders. Use this step to promote your idea and gather early feedback on your Pre-HFTP proposal. It may happen that experts and community members may have tried something similar in the past and may offer valuable advice." 27 | ``` 28 | Maybe posting a Tech Track proposal *plus* a post to Discourse to invite people to contribute? Something to invite the TT group to consider. 29 | 30 | - GHC.X.Hackage update. 31 | - Ben put a summary of the [GHC.X.Hackage proposal](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) to discourse [here.](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/pre-hftp-ghc-x-hackage-a-tool-for-easing-migrations-to-new-ghc-versions/4239/2) 32 | - He will post on Reddit too, and talk to Gershom. 33 | - Holding the token: Ben 34 | 35 | - GHC tick-tock releases. 36 | - Post [this](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/2aHzr6aTQEiDlNCliKaCYg#) to discourse 37 | - Holding the token: Ben 38 | 39 | - Maintainership standards. 40 | - Richard doesn't have time to shepherd this. 41 | - Nice to have, but not urgent 42 | - Park this for now, pending (a) getting GHC.X.hackage, and tick-tock releases resolved, and/or (b) an enthusiast to drive it. 43 | 44 | - Language features to support migration (deprecations etc) 45 | - E.g. 46 | - [deprecation mechanisms](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/design/deprecation-mechanisms) 47 | - [local warning pragmas](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/design/local-warning-pragmas) 48 | - [User defined Type Warnings](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/17027) 49 | - Develop a concise list of possible extra language support mechanisms, including examples of when these might be useful 50 | - Evaluate them in terms of past "bumps in the road" 51 | - Create a survey for the community and invite feedback about which would be most helpful. 52 | - Question: do we want to start a workstream to consider what extra language support for deprecations would be helpful? Answer: yes if anyone wants to lead/drive it, perhaps starting from here. 53 | - GHC experts (notably Ben) happy to fill in any GHC-specific details . 54 | - Holding the token: Trevis 55 | 56 | - API breakage policy. 57 | - Tom sent arounds [Opaleye’s API breakage policy](http://h2.jaguarpaw.co.uk/posts/opaleyes-api-breakage-policy/) 58 | - Descriptive vs prescriptive is a benefit 59 | - GHC might want to have a more explicit breakage policy too 60 | - And for the next release, breaking changes could be given a rationale; and mitigation strategies. 61 | - Should we collect a list of these policies for reference? 62 | - Holding the token: Tom 63 | 64 | - GHC 9.4 breaking changes 65 | - If one wanted to drive a change to not be breaking how would one do that? 66 | - Open a GHC issue 67 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2022-04-04.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2022-04-04 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-03-21.md) 7 | 8 | ## Agenda 9 | - [GHC.X.Hackage](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) update 10 | - Update on GHC tick-tock releases 11 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) 12 | - [Update on API breakage policy](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/breakage-and-deprecation-cycle-policies/4281) 13 | - [Type variable binders in datatypes](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/425) and [Discourse discussion](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/feedback-requested-about-breakage-type-variable-binders-in-datatypes/4241) 14 | - Proposed [`Data.List` monomorphisation](https://github.com/haskell/core-libraries-committee/issues/22) 15 | 16 | ## Notes 17 | 18 | - GHC.X.Hackage update 19 | - Ben: Met with Andrea Bedini, the maintainer of [`foliage`](https://github.com/andreabedini/foliage) to guide technical direction. "Foliage is a tool to create custom or private Haskell package repositories, in a fully reproducible way." 20 | - Looks to be a good foundation for the proposed extensions to head.hackage 21 | - Currently still struggling to find time to engage in discussion 22 | - Parked until GHC 9.4 is branched 23 | - Holding the token: **Ben** 24 | - Update on GHC tick-tock releases 25 | - Similarly, struggling to find time to push forward discussion 26 | - Parked until GHC 9.4 is branched 27 | - Holding the token: Ben 28 | - Update on Language/compiler features to help stability 29 | - Main idea: collect ideas for language suppport that would help to mitigate the cost of change, and 30 | - refine, 31 | - categorise, 32 | - prioritise 33 | - Then present them to the Haskell community, inviting 34 | - feedback 35 | - further ideas 36 | - actual cycles to help develop them 37 | 38 | - Then turn (some of) them into proper GHC proposals 39 | - [Notes from Ben and Trevis's discussion](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw) 40 | - [One refinement already](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/design/deprecation-mechanisms/removed-pragma) 41 | 42 | - For now, Trevis is holding the token. 43 | 44 | - Update on API breakage policy 45 | - TE published [Opaleye's API breakage policy](http://h2.jaguarpaw.co.uk/posts/opaleyes-api-breakage-policy/) 46 | - TE submitted to [Reddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/tpo6u8/breakage_and_deprecation_cycle_policies/), [Discourse](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/breakage-and-deprecation-cycle-policies/4281) and asked for example of other policies but not much came back. 47 | - Main payload for now: opt-in advice for library authors. 48 | - 3 release policy was also mentioned [here](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/stability-working-group-meeting-21-march-2022/4274/3) 49 | - 50 | - [Type variable binders in datatypes](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/425) and [Discourse](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/feedback-requested-about-breakage-type-variable-binders-in-datatypes/4241) 51 | - Discussion was great, we want more 52 | - The more it happens we hope the involvement will increase 53 | - Proposed [`Data.List` monomorphisation](https://github.com/haskell/core-libraries-committee/issues/22) 54 | - Want to make sure those who would dislike it are being heard 55 | 56 | ### Reducing the pain of breakage 57 | 58 | * Making fewer changes (more conservatism) 59 | * Just don't changes things at all 60 | * Making changes that break less: 61 | * Introducing language and compiler changes to make compatibility easier to achieve in the face of interface changes 62 | * Breaking with more support: 63 | * Automated migration and refactoring tools 64 | * `2to3` (Python) 65 | * `scalafix` 66 | * `cargo fix` 67 | * [rerast](https://github.com/google/rerast) 68 | * Jetbrains does this in editor for some languages eg 69 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2022-04-18.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2022-04-18 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-04-04.md) 7 | 8 | ## Agenda 9 | - [GHC.X.Hackage](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) update 10 | - Update on GHC tick-tock releases 11 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) 12 | - [Update on API breakage policy](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/breakage-and-deprecation-cycle-policies/4281) 13 | - [cabal-install breakage](https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/8076#issuecomment-1087806908) 14 | - [Keeping a list of community ideas](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/issues/11) 15 | - [Checking multiple CPP combinations](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/issues/11) 16 | - [Private Dependencies](https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/4035) and suggested [here](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/issues/11) 17 | - [Rehabilitating-Orphans-with-Order-theory](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/Rehabilitating-Orphans-with-Order-theory) also suggested on [here](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/issues/11) 18 | 19 | 20 | ## Notes 21 | 22 | - [GHC.X.Hackage](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) update 23 | - Progressing with a prototype based on [foliage](https://github.com/andreabedini/foliage) 24 | - Holding the token: Ben 25 | 26 | - Update on GHC tick-tock releases 27 | - Holding the token: Ben 28 | 29 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) 30 | - Strech goal: Rehabiliting Orphans 31 | - Holding the token: Trevis 32 | 33 | - [Update on API breakage policy](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/breakage-and-deprecation-cycle-policies/4281) 34 | - Parked due to lack of interest 35 | 36 | - [cabal-install breakage](https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/8076#issuecomment-1087806908) 37 | - Could announce a version saying the discussed warning will be an error 38 | - Perhaps we need more frequent releases of 'cabal-install'? 39 | - Not any action for us to take as a group 40 | 41 | - [Keeping a list of community ideas](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/issues/11) 42 | - Suggestion: Make a list easy to see in our repo 43 | - Trevis to create this list in the repo 44 | 45 | - [Checking multiple CPP combinations](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/issues/11) 46 | - SWG to host discussion for this but not any other action for us to take at this time. 47 | 48 | - [Private Dependencies](https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/4035) and suggested [here](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/issues/11) 49 | - This is tricky 50 | - Idea: Can we step towards this with not exposed instances? 51 | - Benefit for this could be large 52 | 53 | - [Rehabilitating-Orphans-with-Order-theory](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/Rehabilitating-Orphans-with-Order-theory) also suggested on [here](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/issues/11) 54 | - Bring up on github that it would help to make the wiki page more concrete 55 | - Goal: Reform Wiki page into something that could be implemented 56 | - We could help review as a way to get towards a HF Tech Track proposal 57 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2022-05-02.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2022-05-02 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-04-18.md) 7 | 8 | ## Agenda 9 | - Updates on in progress work 10 | - [GHC.X.Hackage](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) update 11 | - Update on GHC tick-tock releases 12 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) 13 | - Language Extensions 14 | - [Removing Language Extensions](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/could-ghc-remove-old-extensions/4416/31) 15 | - Privately asked to bring up points on extensions: 16 | - Would it be possible to slow the addition of extensions as they are increasingly burdensome? 17 | - Some extensions are deprecated or experimental, can we mark them as such to help discourage widespread use and then reduce pain from change or removal? 18 | - How can we ensure a codebase does not have deprecated extensions and how can we help spread that in the community? 19 | - (if there is time) Intro to the Community Maintenance/haskell party project 20 | 21 | ## Notes 22 | 23 | - [GHC.X.Hackage](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) update 24 | - Implementation hoping to delegate to Bryan 25 | - Using foliage 26 | - Holding the token: Ben 27 | - Update on GHC tick-tock releases 28 | - 9.4 first release starting on time for the 6 month schedule of current policy 29 | - This should be broadcast more widely to the community. 30 | - Holding the token: Ben 31 | 32 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) 33 | - Holding the token: Trevis 34 | - Language Extensions 35 | - Discourse discussion 36 | - Point at ghc2021 37 | - Extensions stability 38 | - Add to users guide a field to say: 39 | - if extension is considered stable 40 | - is eligible to be included in a future standard (ghc 2021) 41 | - Opened ticket: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/21475 42 | - Holding the token: Trevis 43 | - Warnings could be added for: 44 | - Deprecated extensions 45 | - Not stable extensions 46 | - Outside of ghc2021 47 | - Opened ticket for `Rank2Types`: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/21474 48 | 49 | - Intro to the Community Maintenance/Haskell Party Project 50 | - Lots of not well maintained packages 51 | - Very positive response 52 | - Should this group be an affiliation with HF? Perhaps not 53 | - Next steps (Adam): 54 | - Add proposal to stability repo 55 | - Post to discourse 56 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2022-05-16.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2022-05-16 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-02.md) 7 | 8 | ## Agenda 9 | - Updates on in progress work 10 | - [GHC.X.Hackage](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) update 11 | - Update on GHC tick-tock releases: see https://edit.smart-cactus.org/2aHzr6aTQEiDlNCliKaCYg 12 | - Broadcasting that ghc 9.4 was first to hit 6 month release schedule 13 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) 14 | - [Haskell Party Proposal](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/12) 15 | - [mtl 2.3 was released](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/ann-mtl-2-3/4488) 16 | - How can we help the community cope with these changes? 17 | - Could we write a retrie (or similar) snippet to aid with this? 18 | 19 | ## Notes 20 | 21 | - [GHC.X.Hackage](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) update 22 | - Brian starts today today for HF! 23 | - This is not #1 priority, but is high 24 | - [Ticket on ghc gitlab for first steps of work](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/head.hackage/-/issues/53) 25 | - TODO: Update proprosal and invite feedback 26 | - [Previous feedback on discourse](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/pre-hftp-ghc-x-hackage-a-tool-for-easing-migrations-to-new-ghc-versions/4239) 27 | - Proposal update expected soon 28 | - Reach out to critical package authors, hackage, stackage, cabal 29 | - Holding the token: David 30 | - Holding the token: Ben 31 | - Update on GHC tick-tock releases 32 | - Hoping to move again in the coming week(s) 33 | - Explicitly reaching out to community, similar to GHC.X.Hackage 34 | - Holding the token: Ben 35 | - Broadcasting 9.4 first release starting on time for the 6 month schedule of current policy 36 | - Caution currently until release is finalized 37 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) 38 | - Adding [Intrinsic Superclasses](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/intrinsic-superclasses) 39 | - Holding the token: Trevis 40 | - [Haskell Party Proposal](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/12) 41 | - Good feedback, clarification needed 42 | - Holding the token: Adam 43 | - [mtl 2.3](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/ann-mtl-2-3/4488) 44 | - Impact will really be felt around ghc 9.6 timeframe 45 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2022-05-30.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2022-05-30 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-16.md) 7 | 8 | ## Agenda 9 | - Items held over from previous meeting 10 | - [Was simplified subsumption a net win for industry](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/r-haskell-was-simplified-subsumption-worth-it-for-industry-haskell/4486) 11 | - Helping move the community away from deprecated langauge extensions (Rank2Types, OverlappingInstannces) 12 | - Updates on in progress work 13 | - [GHC.X.Hackage](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) update 14 | - Update on GHC tick-tock releases: see https://edit.smart-cactus.org/2aHzr6aTQEiDlNCliKaCYg 15 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) 16 | - [Haskell Party Proposal](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/12) 17 | 18 | 19 | ## Notes 20 | 21 | - [Was simplified subsumption a net win for industry?](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/r-haskell-was-simplified-subsumption-worth-it-for-industry-haskell/4486) 22 | - Hindsight: provide a better migration path 23 | - Hindsight: advertise breaking changes more clearly 24 | - [WIP Proposal](https://github.com/mpickering/ghc-proposals/blob/deep-subsumption/proposals/0000-deep-subsumption.rst) 25 | - Idea: Find industry user groups to help smoke test with ghc preleases 26 | - Holding the token on this: David 27 | 28 | - Helping move the community away from deprecated langauge extensions (Rank2Types, OverlappingInstances) 29 | - Trevis is going to work on improving documentation of extensions that are (a) widely used, (b) deprecated (c) easily avoided by doing something better. 30 | - e.g. `Rank2Types` is marked as "deprecated" in the user guide, but there is no warning if you use it. Fix: use `RankNTypes` 31 | - e.g. `OverlappingInstances` and `IncoherentInstances` are similar. Fix: use per-instance `{-# OVERLAPPING #-}` or `{-# OVERLAPPABLE #-}` pragmas 32 | - Could we get volunteers to offer finished PRs that make these changes. 33 | - Chris questions whether it is worth investing cycles in this project. 34 | 35 | - `-Werror`. 36 | - Maybe we should articulate, in GHC's *breakage policy*, that new warnings may be added that warn about code that currently doesn't warn; and hence `-Werror` will force authors to make *some* change to their .cabal file. 37 | - `-Wcompat`: new warnings are by default added to `-Wcompat`. You can switch on `-Werror` and `-Wno-error-compat` (or something like that). We should explain that. 38 | - GHC migration guide could list new warnings. 39 | - Tom will add the link to the Core Libraries warning policy 40 | - Chris will draft a proposal -- essentially, part of a new GHC breakage policy doc. 41 | 42 | 43 | - GHC breakage policy. I wonder if we could draft this ourselves? (Rather than hope that GHC HQ does.) 44 | 45 | 46 | - [GHC.X.Hackage proposal](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) update 47 | 48 | - [GHC tick-tock release proposal](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/34). See https://edit.smart-cactus.org/2aHzr6aTQEiDlNCliKaCYg 49 | 50 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) 51 | 52 | - [Haskell Party Proposal](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/12) 53 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2022-06-13.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2022-06-13 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 7 | 8 | ## Agenda 9 | - Updates on in-progress work 10 | - [GHC.X.Hackage](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) update 11 | - Update on GHC tick-tock releases: see https://edit.smart-cactus.org/2aHzr6aTQEiDlNCliKaCYg and https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/34 12 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) 13 | - GHC warning policy document from last time 14 | - [Warning on partial functions in base](https://github.com/haskell/core-libraries-committee/issues/70) 15 | - [Deep Subsumption Proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/511) 16 | 17 | ## Notes 18 | 19 | - [GHC.X.Hackage](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) update 20 | - HFTT esentially dead 21 | - Update on GHC tick-tock releases 22 | - Lots of good discussion happening currently 23 | - No conclusion reached yet though 24 | - Reach out to those active in discussions 25 | - Holding the token: Ben 26 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) 27 | - Holding the token: Trevis 28 | - GHC warning policy document from last time 29 | - Holding the token: Chris 30 | - [Warning on partial functions in base](https://github.com/haskell/core-libraries-committee/issues/70) 31 | - Agree that having warnings for partial functions is valuable 32 | - Needs to be done for partial functions in base 33 | - [Deep Subsumption Proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/511) 34 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2022-06-27.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2022-06-27 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-06-13.md) 7 | 8 | ## Agenda 9 | - Updates on in-progress work 10 | - [GHC.X.Hackage](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) 11 | - It would appear that there is some agreement that this is useful outside of the HFTT, do we need to do any more? 12 | - [GHC tick-tock releases](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/34) 13 | - Have we reached out to those active in discussions? 14 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) 15 | - GHC warning policy document from last time as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 16 | - Find industry user groups to help smoke test with ghc preleases from [May](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 17 | - [Change Generic1 to associate to the left](https://github.com/haskell/core-libraries-committee/issues/75) 18 | 19 | ## Notes 20 | - [GHC.X.Hackage](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) 21 | - Revise proposal to address misconceptions squarely. 22 | - Identify problem: libraries are not updated for over a year after release -- reason: 40-deep dependency chains mean that there is a multi-month latency *even if every developer responds quickly* (an implausible assumption) 23 | - Authors are understandably reluctant to make releases before a GHC is actually released. So that multi-month clock only starts ticking after GHC is actually released. 24 | - Our goal: make it easy for everyone (developers, users, everyone) to (a) contribute library patches, and (b) access all the patches that others have contributed 25 | - Problem is not "coming up with the patch"; it's "making the patch easily available" 26 | - Proposal may address the needs of a silent majority 27 | - Hackage release process remains sequential. 28 | - If we had GHC.X.Hackage, then task X would be faster/easier. 29 | - David C says: People today make progress by pointing their stack/cabal to a hand-rolled set of patches (i.e each is a pointer to a particular commit, maybe not merged yet, in the package's Git repo). This is massively duplicative... everyone does this separately. We want to share this work. 30 | - Give a worked example: an author with many dependencies can use GHC.X.Hackage can fix their package now. 31 | - It would be great to have a progress tracker that showed what libraries are next in the queue to be updated on Hackage, and send maintainers email to tell them. 32 | - Second draft: David 33 | 34 | 35 | - [GHC tick-tock releases](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/34) 36 | - Holding the token to reach out more: Ben 37 | - Why not release annually instead? 38 | - Pressure for last-minute inclusions 39 | - Difficulty for release managers 40 | - Correctness issues for huge releases (though somewhat mitigated by head.hackage these days) 41 | 42 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) 43 | - Holding the token: Trevis 44 | 45 | - GHC warning policy document from last time as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 46 | 47 | - Find industry user groups to help smoke test with ghc preleases from [May](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 48 | - Holding the token: David 49 | 50 | - [Change Generic1 to associate to the left](https://github.com/haskell/core-libraries-committee/issues/75) 51 | - GHC.X.Hackage and generalizations can help support doing the breakage analysis 52 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2022-07-11.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2022-07-11 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-06-27.md) 7 | 8 | ## Agenda 9 | - GHC release without profiling causing issues downstream. As discussed [on hls](https://github.com/haskell/haskell-language-server/issues/2857), [and stackage-content](https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stackage-content/pull/102) 10 | - [Haskell Architecture Proposal](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/haskell-architecture-proposal/4706/1) 11 | - Updates on in-progress work 12 | - [GHC.X.Hackage second draft](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) 13 | - [GHC tick-tock releases](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/34) 14 | - Have we reached out to those active in discussions? 15 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) 16 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 17 | - Find industry user groups to help smoke test with ghc preleases from [May](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 18 | 19 | 20 | ## Notes 21 | - GHC release without profiling causing issues downstream. As discussed [on hls](https://github.com/haskell/haskell-language-server/issues/2857) [and stackage-content](https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stackage-content/pull/102) 22 | - Hindsight: should have done 9.0.3 23 | - Could do 9.0.3 now 24 | - Release infra is in a much better state now 25 | - Do not expect this going forward 26 | - Holding the token for further discussion: Ben 27 | 28 | - [Haskell Architecture Proposal](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/haskell-architecture-proposal/4706/1) 29 | - Has identified ecosystem struggles 30 | - Documentation could help 31 | - David to reach out to help bring the author in. 32 | 33 | - [GHC.X.Hackage](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) 34 | - Second draft: David 35 | - Making progress on this! 36 | - Ben has offered feedback; David will revise again 37 | 38 | - [GHC tick-tock releases](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/34) 39 | - Table this until August 40 | - Update the PR thread: Ben 41 | 42 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) 43 | - Reach out to key community members 44 | - Holding the token: Trevis 45 | 46 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 47 | - Work In Progress 48 | - Holding the token: Chris 49 | 50 | - Find industry user groups to help smoke test with ghc preleases from [May](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 51 | - Holding the token: David 52 | - Tabling this as we expect the industry cost to doing this to decrease. 53 | - A package popularity reporting would be great 54 | - Off by default in cabal/stack that reported 55 | - a hash of project name 56 | - packages and bounds for packages on hackage 57 | - We really like this idea but on hold for now, given bandwidth and timing 58 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2022-07-25.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2022-07-25 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-07-11.md) 7 | 8 | ## Agenda 9 | - [XUnstable GHC Proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/524) [Rendered](https://github.com/goldfirere/ghc-proposals/blob/unstable/proposals/0000-unstable.rst) 10 | - [Or Patterns GHC Proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/522) [Rendered](https://github.com/knothed/ghc-proposals/blob/master/proposals/0522-or-patterns.rst) 11 | - Updates on in-progress work 12 | - [GHC.X.Hackage second draft](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) 13 | - [GHC tick-tock releases](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/34) 14 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) 15 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 16 | - Find industry user groups to help smoke test with ghc preleases from [May](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 17 | 18 | 19 | ## Notes 20 | - [XUnstable GHC Proposal](https://github.com/goldfirere/ghc-proposals/blob/unstable/proposals/0000-unstable.rst) 21 | 22 | - [Or Patterns GHC Proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/522) [Rendered](https://github.com/knothed/ghc-proposals/blob/master/proposals/0522-or-patterns.rst) 23 | 24 | - [GHC.X.Hackage](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) 25 | 26 | - [GHC tick-tock releases](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/34) 27 | - Last time we said to table this until August 28 | 29 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) 30 | 31 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 32 | 33 | - Find industry user groups to help smoke test with ghc preleases from [May](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 34 | - Previously tabled this as we expect the cost to decrease. 35 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2022-08-08.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2022-08-08 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-07-25.md) 7 | 8 | ## Agenda 9 | - Haddocks for key infrastructure 10 | - Updates on in-progress work 11 | - [GHC.X.Hackage second draft](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) 12 | - [GHC tick-tock releases](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/34) 13 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) 14 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 15 | - Find industry user groups to help smoke test with ghc preleases from [May](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 16 | 17 | 18 | ## Notes 19 | - Haddocks for key infrastructure 20 | - Some packages are missing haddocks entirely, others partially 21 | - How can we help package maintainers lives easier to be consistent here? 22 | - Does this tie in with the package standards/badges? 23 | - Suggestion for standards: If a module is exposed, then it needs docs 24 | - Adds weight to guidelines work 25 | - Idea: Get help for "central" packages to help meet expectations 26 | - Racket is a good community to glean ideas from 27 | - Extensible documentation tooling would be helpful 28 | - Bring this up to academics 29 | - Holding the token: David 30 | - Recruit for helping community 31 | 32 | - [GHC.X.Hackage](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) 33 | - Still WIP 34 | 35 | - [GHC tick-tock releases](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/34) 36 | - Previously table this until August 37 | 38 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) 39 | - Have to keep scope in control 40 | - Send ideas that need more research to David 41 | - Holding the token: Trevis 42 | 43 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 44 | - No progress 45 | 46 | - Find industry user groups to help smoke test with ghc preleases from [May](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 47 | - Previously tabled this as we expect the cost to decrease. 48 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2022-09-19.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2022-09-19 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-08-22.md) 7 | 8 | ## Agenda 9 | - Updates on in-progress work 10 | - [GHC.X.Hackage second draft](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) 11 | - [GHC tick-tock releases](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/34) 12 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) 13 | - [Exposing package internals](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/528) 14 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 15 | - [CLC proposal to warn on `head`/`tail`](https://github.com/haskell/core-libraries-committee/issues/87) would break users of `-Werror`. 16 | 17 | ## Notes 18 | - [GHC.X.Hackage](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) 19 | - Need to determine who would do the work 20 | - David to have discussions here 21 | 22 | - [GHC tick-tock releases](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/34) 23 | - Needs revision or closure 24 | 25 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) 26 | - Mail the top hackage package maintainers? 27 | - Take it to ghc-devs to find interest in implementing? 28 | 29 | - [Exposing package internals](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/528) 30 | - How can we get feedback from heavy users of ghc as an api? 31 | - David to get some of this feedback 32 | - Idea: A template for GHC release notes, divided by audience 33 | - David to email ghc-devs about this 34 | 35 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 36 | - No updates 37 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2022-10-03.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2022-10-03 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-09-19.md) 7 | 8 | ## Agenda 9 | - Left from last time 10 | - [CLC proposal to warn on `head`/`tail`](https://github.com/haskell/core-libraries-committee/issues/87) would break users of `-Werror`. 11 | - New items 12 | - Organizing impact as discussed in this [thread](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/34#issuecomment-1247908856) 13 | - Updates on in-progress work 14 | - [GHC.X.Hackage second draft](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) 15 | - [GHC tick-tock releases](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/34) 16 | - Last time we said this needs revision or closure, did this happen? 17 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) 18 | - [Exposing package internals](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/528) 19 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 20 | - GHC API: following the Haskell Implementors Workshop and Haskell Symposium, David C offered to convene a working group to work out what kind of more stable GHC API would be most useful -- GHC as a library. 21 | - At the moment it is not clear what the GHC API *is* (except for "every module in GHC" which is unhelpful). 22 | - Having a clear API would make it much easier to use, much easier for GHC devs to know what APIs are public (and hence with a high stablity threshold) and which are entirely internal to GHC (and hence can be changed at will). 23 | - We hope that this group's product will be a useful resource to GHC development going forward, and that the group can serve as a source of feedback 24 | 25 | ## Notes of meeting 26 | 27 | - [CLC proposal to warn on `head`/`tail`](https://github.com/haskell/core-libraries-committee/issues/87) would break users of `-Werror`. 28 | - How concerned should be we about breaking libraries that use `-Werrror`? 29 | - GHC proposal about [user-defined-warnings](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/454) 30 | - GHC proposal about [Warning pragmas with categories](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/541) This would allow users to disable *specific* warnings (eg. those for head and tail). 31 | - Our role: we could (say) identify a GHC Proposal that would really help to smooth the path for otherwise-sensible CLC proposals. 32 | 33 | - Organizing impact as discussed in this [thread](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/34#issuecomment-1247908856) 34 | - Can we provide a framework for considering impact to the community? 35 | - Outcome: a markdown file in our repo. 36 | - Include: a list of implied priorities for each "slice" of users. 37 | - David will create the file; Trevis will make the "list of implied priorities" 38 | 39 | - [GHC.X.Hackage second draft](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27). 40 | - No new developments; awaiting Ben. 41 | - But a putative consensus that Something Should Be Done, and roughly what. 42 | - David will talk to Ben about what to do next 43 | 44 | - [GHC tick-tock releases](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/34). 45 | - No consensus of "user voice" has emerged here. So let's just park this (unless Ben wants to pursue it). 46 | 47 | - GHC API 48 | - Have a separate `ghc-api` package? Or a subset of modules in the `ghc` package that are advertised as stable. 49 | - An issue driving this is that ghc the library and ghc the application share versions. 50 | - Could we collect from the community which parts of ghc are used? 51 | - How does this group interact with the new working group? 52 | 53 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) 54 | 55 | - [Exposing package internals](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/528) 56 | - Neither Simon nor Richard has enough cycles to actively push this. 57 | - There have been surprisingly mixed reactions 58 | - Several people have said "just use a convention" e.g. "it's unstable if it has `Internal` in the module name" 59 | - SPJ's suggestion: park this pending more user pressure. Encourage the GHC folk articulate a policy about what is public API for `ghc-prim` and `base` libraries. 60 | - Trevis has ideas, but is unsure how to amend the proposal to fit or if we should open new proposal(s). 61 | 62 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 63 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2022-10-17.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2022-10-17 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-03.md) 7 | 8 | ## Agenda 9 | - New items 10 | - Creating and maintaining a set of hlint rules to promote stability. 11 | - Updates on in-progress work 12 | - GHC API 13 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) 14 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 15 | - [GHC.X.Hackage second draft](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) 16 | 17 | ## Notes of meeting 18 | 19 | - Creating and maintaining a set of hlint rules to promote stability. 20 | - Can/should we? 21 | - Allows us to catch changes earlier 22 | - Applies to more than `-Wcompat` 23 | - Does not require changes on libraries in any way. 24 | - Can be iterated very quickly 25 | - Not limited to deprecations, can be something like best practices 26 | - Though we might end up with long bikeshedding discussions 27 | - We do not want to do this though, keep ours to just breaking changes. 28 | - Related idea: 29 | - Bulletin of changes - what has happened and why? 30 | - Monthly/quarerly/as-needed big changes that are distrubuted. 31 | - How do we know what packages to include? 32 | - Add/remove per community feedback, start with judgement calls 33 | - If we miss then situation is exactly as today 34 | - open PR with initial rules 35 | - Holding the token: Trevis 36 | - GHC API 37 | - Still need to assemble group (see prior minutes) 38 | - Holding the token: David 39 | - Idea: Module hierarchy could help, a single `GHC` module is too monolithic to serve as a reasonable interface 40 | - No progress 41 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) 42 | - Next step is to ask for in-kind donation from sponsor who wants to implement "Deprecating exports" 43 | - Holding the token: David 44 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 45 | - No progress yet 46 | - Holding the token: Chris 47 | - [GHC.X.Hackage second draft](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) 48 | - Make next hackage and look at adoption. 49 | - Hazard is in communications. 50 | - First bulletin could be announcing this? 51 | - Submit or close proposal 52 | - Submission for vote we think would be welcomed 53 | - Holding the token for a comment: David 54 | - Bulletin 55 | - Keep in SWG repo 56 | - "Haskell Changelog" 57 | - Holding the token: Chris 58 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2022-10-31.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2022-10-31 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 7 | 8 | ## Agenda 9 | 10 | - New items 11 | - `cabal.project` with warnings for multiple ghc versions (re `A potential recommendation RE -Werror` on stability@haskell.foundation) 12 | - [`GHC2023`](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/quo-vadis-ghc2023/5220)? 13 | - Updates on in-progress work 14 | - [Creating and maintaining a set of hlint rules to promote stability](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/14) 15 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 16 | - GHC API 17 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) 18 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 19 | - [GHC.X.Hackage second draft](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) 20 | 21 | ## Notes of meeting 22 | 23 | - cabal.project with warnings for multiple ghc versions. 24 | - Would be nice if we had an expression language, though we don't expect to get that 25 | - How often does a new warning being added to Wall break the ability to use older compilers? 26 | - Any conclusion /actions here??? 27 | 28 | - [`GHC2023`](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/quo-vadis-ghc2023/5220) 29 | - Tom: [original proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/blob/master/proposals/0372-ghc-extensions.rst) said annual GHC20xx releases; but Tom would prefer every 5 yrs or so. 30 | - Trevis: The community isn't moving quick enough to give good feedback every year. 31 | - SPJ: GHC team would be happy with any consensus here, and would be thrilled if the Stablity group evolved such a consensus. 32 | - Question: does this group want to lead a consensus-building activity? 33 | - Answer: yes, and Tom is willing to lead. 34 | - Starting with an email to ghc-steering committee. 35 | - Holding the token: Tom 36 | 37 | - [Creating and maintaining a set of hlint rules to promote stability](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/14) 38 | - Hlint does not seem to have the ability to write rules around class methods that have defaults 39 | - So writing a rule for (/=) is not possible currently. 40 | - Take to the community 41 | - C.f. New [GHC style guide](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/commentary/coding-style) 42 | - Mention the things we would like to do, but HLint can't manage (yet) 43 | - Holding the token: Trevis 44 | 45 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 46 | - Holding the token: Chris 47 | - No update 48 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 49 | - Holding the token: Chris 50 | - No update 51 | - GHC API discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 52 | - Holding the token: David 53 | - No update 54 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) 55 | - Holding the token: David 56 | - No update 57 | - [GHC.X.Hackage second draft](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) 58 | - David and Ben have discussed this. Do not want to follow the Technical Working Group proposal (right now) 59 | - Instead run a pilot project, say for the GHC 9.6 branch. 60 | - Make crystal clear to potential contributors how to contribute to such a head.hackage branch, based on [this draft blog post](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/homepage/-/merge_requests/29) 61 | - Move content into head.hackage repo so that it becomes editable as things change. (Blog is an advert; and points to the repo doc) 62 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2022-11-14.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2022-11-14 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-31.md) 7 | 8 | ## Agenda 9 | 10 | - New items 11 | - Would we expect any stability impact with the proposal to split [`haddock`](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/44) 12 | - Updates on in-progress work 13 | - [`GHC20XX Consensus building`](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-31.md) 14 | 15 | - [Creating and maintaining a set of hlint rules to promote stability](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/14) 16 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 17 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 18 | - Also relevant: https://github.com/haskell/core-libraries-committee/issues/87 19 | - [GHC.X.Hackage second draft](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) 20 | 21 | - Parked for expected absence of token holder 22 | - GHC API discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 23 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) 24 | 25 | ## Notes of meeting 26 | 27 | - Would we expect any stability impact with the proposal to split [`haddock`](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/44) 28 | - We don't see a specific stability concern. 29 | 30 | - [`GHC20XX Consensus building`](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-31.md) 31 | - Previously holding the token: Tom 32 | - Tom send a message to the [ghc-steering-committee email list](https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/ghc-steering-committee/2022-November/) explaining the stability impact of GHC20XX and sugggests we leave it at that. 33 | - Happy to call this done 34 | 35 | - [Creating and maintaining a set of hlint rules to promote stability](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/14) 36 | - Previously holding the token: Trevis 37 | - Feature request to hlint about typeclass rules 38 | - Holding the token: Trevis 39 | 40 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 41 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 42 | - WIP 43 | - Holding the token: Chris 44 | 45 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 46 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 47 | - WIP 48 | - Holding the token: Chris 49 | 50 | - [GHC.X.Hackage second draft](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27) 51 | - Previously holding the token: Ben? 52 | - Pilot in progress for 9.6 53 | - So closed for us 54 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2022-11-28.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2022-11-28 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-11-14.md) 7 | 8 | ## Agenda & Notes 9 | 10 | ### New items 11 | 12 | - Any volunteers to run next meeting? Trevis will be on vacation 13 | - David to run 14 | - Also holiday/end of year 15 | - Skipping meeting that would have fallen on December 26th. 16 | - Trevis to cancel meeting invite 17 | 18 | ### Updates on in-progress work 19 | - GHC API discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 20 | - Previously holding the token: David 21 | - No progress 22 | - Holding the token: David 23 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) 24 | - Previously holding the token: David 25 | - Need to get a quote for some of this 26 | - David has meeting for us. 27 | - Asking for implementation of [this](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/blob/master/proposals/0134-deprecating-exports-proposal.rst) 28 | - Of all the things suggested our our [Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view) page, this is the only one that is ready, and cheap-looking. 29 | - This already has an accepted proposal 30 | - Implementation tracked at [#4879](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/4879), although it needs to be updated to reflect the current state of the proposal 31 | 32 | - Simon and David to ask GHC devs for volunteers 33 | - Holding the token: David+Simon 34 | 35 | - [Creating and maintaining a set of hlint rules to promote stability](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/14) 36 | - Previously holding the token: Trevis 37 | - Submitting a feature request soon 38 | - Holding the token: Trevis 39 | 40 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 41 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 42 | - No progress 43 | 44 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 45 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 46 | - No progress 47 | 48 | - What is the stable API of base 49 | - CLC has said *all* of the exposed modules 50 | - Can we mark all of the modules with the stability haddock field? 51 | - Related: Namespace with Internal modules. 52 | - Zurihac project? Go through the 232 exposed modules and categorise them as 53 | - Should be exposed 54 | - Should not be exposed 55 | - Needs further attention 56 | - look at API function by function 57 | - identify the subset that should be exposed 58 | - maybe make new modules for these exposed ones 59 | 60 | - More generally, a package may well want to expose "internal" modules, say for testing frameworks; but those internal modules should not be subject to the PVP; and clients should not expect to able to rely on their stablility. 61 | - Perhaps having `Internal` in the name? This is a widely used convention. But then the PVP should say this. This idea is tracked as https://github.com/haskell/pvp/issues/8 62 | - Ben will open a MR. 63 | - c.f. [Opaleye conventions](https://github.com/tomjaguarpaw/haskell-opaleye#internal-modules) 64 | 65 | 66 | ### Parked for expected absence of token holder 67 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2023-01-09.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2023-01-09 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-12-12.md) 7 | 8 | # Agenda & Notes 9 | 10 | ## New items 11 | 12 | - CLC has open call for participation. 13 | - [Safe Haskell](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/deprecating-safe-haskell-or-heavily-investing-in-it/5489) 14 | - Does anyone in the group see a particular reason to fight for it to continue? (no) 15 | - The cost: libraries feel obligated to use it, in case a user might want it. This increases the cost, and safety inference is brittle. 16 | - E.g. new contributors try to "do the right thing", and Safe Haskell annotations are a footgun 17 | - Should we just announce not to use it, rather than get rid of it? 18 | - Arguments for removal: 19 | - It is broken: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/21705, https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/20078 20 | - It has poor usability: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/19590 21 | - It interacts badly with `GHC2021`: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/19605 22 | - It can break in non-obvious ways and incurs maintenance overhead: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/19002 23 | - Its claimed promises are broken by GNTD, a ubiquitous and useful extension: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/8827 24 | - It poses a small maintenance overhead on GHC and tooling developers: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/22728, https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/19604 25 | - Perhaps we can begin by socially making it less prominent, e.g. by having Haddock output not prominently present it? 26 | 27 | ## Updates on in-progress work 28 | - GHC API discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 29 | - Previously holding the token: David 30 | - Moving, but slowly 31 | 32 | - What is the stable API of base 33 | - Schedule Zurihac project? 34 | - No longer needed 35 | - Preliminary result of discussions: All of base is a stable API and will use CLC to make changes (that might consist of extracting guts from `base` - no complete conclusion is found, but a crowdsourced effort is premature) 36 | 37 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view), specifically [#4879](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/4879) 38 | - Previously holding the token: David + Simon 39 | - Seeking volunteers for #4879 (deprecating exports); none yet; think about HF funding for this 40 | - Have a lead on a potential volunteer. 41 | - Are there any other tasks for which modest HF funding would unlock real value? 42 | - Blocked on this currently. 43 | 44 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 45 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 46 | - No progress currently 47 | 48 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 49 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 50 | - No progress currently, deprioritized relative to bulletin. 51 | 52 | 53 | - [Creating and maintaining a set of hlint rules to promote stability](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/14) 54 | - Previously holding the token: Trevis 55 | - Opened [issue](https://github.com/ndmitchell/hlint/issues/1440) asking if we can write rules for typeclasses. 56 | 57 | ## Parked for expected absence of token holder 58 | 59 | ## For next week 60 | 61 | - Look over John Ericson's `base` reform proposal: https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/47 62 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2023-02-06.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2023-02-06 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2023-01-23.md) 7 | 8 | # Agenda & Notes 9 | 10 | ## Action Items From Previous 11 | 12 | - [x] Chris will post a summary of our conversation about base reform to [tech-proposals thread](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/47) 13 | - [x] Trevis will seek additional commercial user feedback on [GHC medium-term priorities](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/ghc-medium-term-priorities/5600) 14 | - [ ] David will talk to Julian about ghcup and nightlies. 15 | 16 | ## New items to discuss 17 | 18 | - [Discussion](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/language-library-and-compiler-stability-moved-from-ghc-9-6-migration-guide) around stability from 9.6 migration 19 | - Is there a systemic view that can help with the frustration here? 20 | - Chris: Additional communication/better communication would reduce stress 21 | - Proposal: Request GHC Steering Committee for a small number of no migration required releases 22 | - Trevis: I suspect nightlies will unlock lots of potential value here 23 | - [In-progress work at classifying `base` stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/EjfMUGhOSzCnGpEsGLR4iA?edit) 24 | - Trevis proposes: Formalize the stability field in haddock module documentation 25 | - This will be a big breaking change for many people (if only answering the question of does a dependency need to be added/changed) 26 | - Does this make the deprecation of exports work more important? 27 | 28 | ## In progress projects 29 | ### Updates 30 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 31 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 32 | 33 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 34 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 35 | 36 | - [Creating and maintaining a set of hlint rules to promote stability](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/14) 37 | - Previously holding the token: Trevis 38 | - Opened [issue](https://github.com/ndmitchell/hlint/issues/1440) asking if we can write rules for typeclasses. 39 | 40 | ### Parked for expected absence of token holder 41 | - GHC API discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 42 | - Previously holding the token: David 43 | 44 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view), specifically [#4879](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/4879) 45 | - Previously holding the token: David + Simon 46 | 47 | ## For next week 48 | ### Action Items 49 | - Trevis: Create a CLC issue for a stability field package 50 | - Ben: Carry `base` stability proposal to CLC 51 | 52 | ### Discussion items 53 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2023-03-06.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2023-03-06 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2023-02-20.md) 7 | 8 | # Agenda & Notes 9 | 10 | ## Action Items From Previous 11 | 12 | - [ ] David will talk to Julian about ghcup and nightlies. 13 | - David has had some discussions 14 | - Has a draft document, for collaborative consensus building, that he wants to get agreed. 15 | - Still private conversations for now 16 | - Ultimately will need other document(s) to communicate the wonderfulness to various broader stakeholder groups. 17 | - "Keep nightlies indefinitely". Maybe "indefinitely" means 5 yrs, rather than truly indefinitely. 18 | - [ ] Ben: Carry `base` stability proposal to CLC. 19 | - Lots of detailed notes in [the previous meeting](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2023-02-20.md) under "Create a CLC issue for a stability field package" 20 | - Another recent example of this kind of discussion: [#22946](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/22946) 21 | - Ben will work on this today. Hope for progress before next meeting! 22 | - [x] Ben: Engage with Eric Mertens on use of th-abstraction 23 | - [ ] Trevis: Examine TH users for possibility of th-abstraction 24 | - No update on this yet 25 | 26 | ## New items to discuss 27 | 28 | - Upcoming GHC 9.6 release 29 | - Bundled mtl has breaking changes 30 | - We don't have a great tool currently to automate this particular kind of change 31 | - Link to mtl migration guide from ghc migration guide 32 | - Chris: action item: Include in migration guide the following 33 | - How to build/test with both mtl 2.2.x and 2.3.x 34 | - How to rewrite the code to work with both 35 | - Can we define what it means to be a technology preview? 36 | - [ ] Ben: Bring to GHC developers; decide on one-to-two sentence definition 37 | 38 | ## In progress projects 39 | ### Updates 40 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 41 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 42 | 43 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 44 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 45 | 46 | - [Creating and maintaining a set of hlint rules to promote stability](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/14) 47 | - Previously holding the token: Trevis 48 | - Opened [issue](https://github.com/ndmitchell/hlint/issues/1440) asking if we can write rules for typeclasses. 49 | 50 | - GHC API discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 51 | - Previously holding the token: David 52 | 53 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view), specifically [#4879](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/4879) 54 | - Previously holding the token: David + Simon 55 | 56 | ## For next week 57 | ### Action Items 58 | 59 | ### Discussion items 60 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2023-04-03.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2023-04-03 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2023-03-20.md) 7 | 8 | # Agenda & Notes 9 | 10 | ## New items to discuss 11 | 12 | - [x] [Major version of Aeson blocking community upgrade process](https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stackage/issues/6905) 13 | - Want to encourage a backported fix to help the community 14 | 15 | - [x] Question directly asked to group: How does the CLC relate to the GHC deprecation policy? Are they completely unrelated? If they are, what does it mean to be deprecated, precisely, by GHC? 16 | - In practice GHC has a judgment call, could be more communicative about policy 17 | - Suggestion: GHC to mark at each deprecation point 18 | - Suggestion: Be more consistent about deprecation warnings 19 | - Ask GHC to define deprecated 20 | - David: Idea to add links to error/warning messages to users guide/documentation 21 | 22 | 23 | - [x] Compiler extension stability discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2023-03-20.md) 24 | - https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/21475. 25 | - Some to and fro about this on the [GHC steering committee email list](https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/ghc-steering-committee/2023-March/003161.html) 26 | - David: Idea “-WExperimental” warn on all experimental language extensions, on by default 27 | - Trevis: Industry would be well served by having extensions marked/documented as “on the leading edge/experimental” 28 | - Trevis: Attempt a first draft of a ghc proposal for warning flag. 29 | - David: Hopes this is cheap to pay to implement 30 | 31 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 32 | 33 | - [ ] David: Conversations about GHC nightlies 34 | - Pending for next meeting 35 | 36 | - [ ] ?: Add definition of tech preview on website and/or wiki 37 | 38 | - [ ] Chris: Add to `mtl` migration guide 39 | - No update 40 | - [ ] Trevis: Examine TH users for possibility of `th-abstraction` 41 | - No update on this yet 42 | 43 | 44 | ## In progress projects 45 | ### Updates 46 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 47 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 48 | 49 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 50 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 51 | 52 | - [Creating and maintaining a set of hlint rules to promote stability](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/14) 53 | - Previously holding the token: Trevis 54 | - Opened [issue](https://github.com/ndmitchell/hlint/issues/1440) asking if we can write rules for typeclasses. 55 | 56 | - GHC API discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 57 | - Previously holding the token: David 58 | 59 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view), specifically [#4879](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/4879) 60 | - Previously holding the token: David + Simon 61 | 62 | ## For next week 63 | ### Action Items 64 | Trevis: Open issue asking for backport on Aeson TH fix. 65 | Reference commit: https://github.com/haskell/aeson/commit/720b857e2e0acf2edc4f5512f2b217a89449a89d 66 | 67 | ### Discussion items 68 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2023-04-17.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2023-04-17 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2023-04-03.md) 7 | 8 | # Agenda & Notes 9 | 10 | ## New items to discuss 11 | 12 | 13 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 14 | 15 | - [ ] David: Conversations about GHC nightlies 16 | 17 | - [ ] Ben: Add definition of tech preview on website and/or wiki mentioned during [March 20th meeting](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2023-03-20.md) 18 | - David: Is this better for wiki or user's guide? Suggests user's guide. 19 | - Trevis asks: Does the user's guide need a glossary? 20 | - Resolution: Do the quick thing - add a glossary page to user's guide 21 | 22 | - [ ] Chris: Add to `mtl` migration guide a way to work with prior and new versions 23 | - Keeping track of decision history and rationale would be useful, not just for `mtl` but in general. 24 | - Desired properties: shows how to write code that works with multiple versions (not just the new one), contains the rationale for why this change was made and is worth it 25 | 26 | - [ ] Trevis: Examine TH users for possibility of `th-abstraction` 27 | - In progress, but not ready to report yet 28 | 29 | - [ ] Trevis: Ask Aeson for backport of TH issue disussed [last time](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2023-04-03.md) 30 | 31 | ## In progress projects 32 | ### Updates 33 | 34 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 35 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 36 | 37 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 38 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 39 | - This has come up in the [community](https://github.com/haskell/mtl/pull/128/files#diff-3f5ccdc580f9a52f9193a34761434a4142f8ff453bf38a47b0df627abb0a53c7) 40 | - From previous meeting notes: 41 | - Maybe we should articulate, in GHC's breakage policy, that new warnings may be added that warn about code that currently doesn't warn; and hence -Werror will force authors to make some change to their .cabal file. 42 | - Wcompat: new warnings are by default added to -Wcompat. You can switch on -Werror and -Wno-error-compat (or something like that). We should explain that. 43 | - GHC migration guide could list new warnings. 44 | - Tom will add the link to the Core Libraries warning policy 45 | - Chris will draft a proposal -- essentially, part of a new GHC breakage policy doc. 46 | 47 | - [Creating and maintaining a set of hlint rules to promote stability](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/14) 48 | - Previously holding the token: Trevis 49 | - Opened [issue](https://github.com/ndmitchell/hlint/issues/1440) asking if we can write rules for typeclasses. 50 | 51 | - GHC API discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 52 | - Previously holding the token: David 53 | 54 | - [Update on Language/compiler features to help stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw?view), specifically [#4879](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/4879) 55 | - Previously holding the token: David + Simon 56 | - Now being done by IOG internship! 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 | ## New for next week 61 | ### Action items 62 | 63 | - Recruit for this group 64 | - Rebalance meetings for task progress vs task identification 65 | 66 | 67 | ### Discussion items 68 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2023-05-01.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2023-05-01 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2023-04-17.md) 7 | 8 | # Agenda & Notes 9 | 10 | ## New items to discuss 11 | 12 | - Recruit for this group 13 | - Ask CLC to have a representative? 14 | - We need more user opinions. E.g. search for prolific authors on Hackage. Hecate? Adam B? 15 | - Post monthly updates 16 | 17 | - Rebalance meetings for task progress vs task identification 18 | - Don't just want to be a talking shop -- want to Get Things Done 19 | - Track projects in repo 20 | 21 | - GHC-internal modules [link to CLC thread](https://github.com/haskell/core-libraries-committee/issues/146) 22 | - Lack of tooling to state/track performance characteristics 23 | - Ben has a patch that checks for changes in `base` API: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/commits/wip/ghc-base 24 | - One issue with `ghc-base` is possible change in error messages https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/commit/fd7ac91eb5dbd061b8cb7d8ef35e90017105ea7c?page=3#5504a9447935fb91e9daad24a7c944a94fde4b60 25 | - Useful: module re-exports: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/module-reexports?version_id=87060cead2ead5f654c42c070c7c6913d2bdf806 26 | - Should we start by moving everything or nothing from `base` to `ghc-base`? 27 | - Useful: deprecated exports: details here: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/4879 (this ticket points to the relevant GHC Proposal) 28 | - all wired-in things and known-key things live in `ghc-base`, so this would unlock re-installable `base`. 29 | 30 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 31 | 32 | 33 | - [x] Add glossary page to ghc user's guide as discussed [last time](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2023-04-17.md) 34 | - Previously holding the token: Ben 35 | - RFC: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/merge_requests/10371 36 | 37 | - [ ] Add to `mtl` migration guide a way to work with prior and new versions 38 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 39 | 40 | - [ ] Examine TH users for possibility of `th-abstraction` 41 | - Previously holding the token: Trevis 42 | - Getting additional resource from Flipstone to look at this in the next few days 43 | 44 | - [x] Ask Aeson for backport of TH issue disussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2023-04-03.md) 45 | - Previously holding the token: Trevis 46 | - Opened [issue](https://github.com/haskell/aeson/issues/1020) 47 | 48 | ## In progress projects 49 | ### Updates 50 | 51 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 52 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 53 | 54 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 55 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 56 | 57 | - [Creating and maintaining a set of hlint rules to promote stability](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/14) 58 | - Previously holding the token: Trevis 59 | - Opened [issue](https://github.com/ndmitchell/hlint/issues/1440) asking if we can write rules for typeclasses. 60 | 61 | 62 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects due to expected absence of token holder 63 | 64 | - Conversations about GHC nightlies 65 | - Previously holding the token: David 66 | 67 | - GHC API discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 68 | - Previously holding the token: David 69 | 70 | ## New for next week 71 | ### Action items 72 | 73 | - Ask if Julian and Bodigrim can meet next time to discuss ghc-internal modules. 74 | - Holding the token: Trevis 75 | 76 | 77 | 78 | ### Discussion items 79 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2023-05-15.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2023-05-15 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2023-05-01.md) 7 | 8 | # Agenda & Notes 9 | 10 | ## New items to discuss 11 | 12 | - Split-base [draft](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aL7raxLAdfA2jWhyiJxegAsCIT7Eo39cXPo7iyWJn60/edit?pli=1) 13 | - Draft edited in meeting 14 | 15 | - GHC-internal modules [link to CLC thread](https://github.com/haskell/core-libraries-committee/issues/146) 16 | 17 | 18 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 19 | 20 | - [x] Ask if Julian and Bodigrim can meet next time to discuss ghc-internal modules. 21 | - Holding the token: Trevis 22 | 23 | - [ ] Add to `mtl` migration guide a way to work with prior and new versions 24 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 25 | 26 | - [ ] Examine TH users for possibility of `th-abstraction` 27 | - Previously holding the token: Trevis 28 | - Crystal Mika from Flipstone reports: 29 | - It appears that `optics`, `aeson`, `quickcheck` and `mustache` either already use `th-abstraction`, or do not have a straightforward path to using it. 30 | 31 | ## In progress projects 32 | ### Updates 33 | 34 | - Conversations about GHC nightlies 35 | - Previously holding the token: David 36 | 37 | - GHC API discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 38 | - Previously holding the token: David 39 | 40 | 41 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 42 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 43 | 44 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 45 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 46 | 47 | - [Creating and maintaining a set of hlint rules to promote stability](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/14) 48 | - Previously holding the token: Trevis 49 | - Opened [issue](https://github.com/ndmitchell/hlint/issues/1440) asking if we can write rules for typeclasses. 50 | 51 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects due to expected absence of token holder 52 | 53 | ## New for next week 54 | ### Action items 55 | 56 | ### Discussion items 57 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2023-06-12.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2023-06-12 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2023-05-15.md) 7 | 8 | # Agenda & Notes 9 | 10 | ## New items to discuss 11 | 12 | - [Exceptions backtrace CLC proposal](https://github.com/haskell/core-libraries-committee/issues/164) 13 | - The end state seems agreed upon 14 | - Perhaps clarify what is new versus what is changed 15 | - Split base will help us here 16 | - [Split -Wunused-imports](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/586) 17 | - Do we really want the relaxed redundant imports? 18 | - Conclusion: Do the simple thing 19 | 20 | - [Is there a way to reduce Template Haskell breakages](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/stability-working-group-may-2023-update/6398/2) 21 | - This was asked on the post for updates from us. 22 | - We need more material to discuss, i.e. what are our options here? 23 | 24 | 25 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 26 | 27 | - [ ] Add to `mtl` migration guide a way to work with prior and new versions 28 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 29 | 30 | - [ ] Examine TH users for possibility of `th-abstraction` 31 | - Previously holding the token: Trevis 32 | - Crystal Mika from Flipstone reports: 33 | - It appears that `optics`, `aeson`, `quickcheck` and `mustache` either already use `th-abstraction`, or do not have a straightforward path to using it. 34 | 35 | ## In progress projects 36 | ### Updates 37 | 38 | - Conversations about GHC nightlies 39 | - Previously holding the token: David 40 | 41 | - GHC API discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 42 | - Previously holding the token: David 43 | 44 | 45 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 46 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 47 | 48 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 49 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 50 | 51 | - [Creating and maintaining a set of hlint rules to promote stability](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/14) 52 | - Previously holding the token: Trevis 53 | - Opened [issue](https://github.com/ndmitchell/hlint/issues/1440) asking if we can write rules for typeclasses. 54 | 55 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects due to expected absence of token holder 56 | 57 | ## New for next week 58 | ### Action items 59 | 60 | ### Discussion items 61 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2023-06-26.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2023-06-26 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2023-06-12.md) 7 | 8 | # Agenda & Notes 9 | 10 | ## New items to discuss 11 | 12 | - [Updates To deprecating exports proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/595) 13 | - Group to make individual comments where applicable 14 | 15 | - David: [Extension maturity proposal](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/67RE3rOMQqClD6n-IlGgCA) 16 | - Chris will write an introduce 17 | 18 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 19 | 20 | - [ ] Split base proposal making progress: https://github.com/adamgundry/tech-proposals/blob/patch-1/proposals/accepted/050-ghc-base-libraries.rst. Feedback eagerly sought! 21 | - due to the cross-cutting character of the proposal, it doesn't "fit" nicely in GHC SC or CLC 22 | - re-using the HF TWG repo, but not a proposal 23 | - Chris will write an introductory paragraph and send it to Simon 24 | 25 | - [ ] Add to `mtl` migration guide a way to work with prior and new versions 26 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 27 | 28 | - [x] Examine TH users for possibility of `th-abstraction` 29 | - Previously holding the token: Trevis 30 | - Crystal Mika from Flipstone reports: 31 | - It appears that `optics`, `aeson`, `quickcheck` and `mustache` either already use `th-abstraction`, or do not have a straightforward path to using it. 32 | 33 | - [ ] Template Haskell 34 | - Adam started looking into [#20828](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/20828) (adding field names to TH AST) at Zurihac 35 | - David mentions that adding `hlint` checks enforcing use of 36 | selectors instead of positional matching would be useful 37 | 38 | ## In progress projects 39 | ### Updates 40 | 41 | - Conversations about GHC nightlies 42 | - Previously holding the token: David 43 | - Matt is currently waiting on merge of https://github.com/haskell/ghcup-hs/pull/825 44 | 45 | - GHC API discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 46 | - Previously holding the token: David 47 | 48 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 49 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 50 | 51 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 52 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 53 | 54 | - [Creating and maintaining a set of hlint rules to promote stability](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/14) 55 | - Previously holding the token: Trevis 56 | - Opened [issue](https://github.com/ndmitchell/hlint/issues/1440) asking if we can write rules for typeclasses. 57 | 58 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects due to expected absence of token holder 59 | 60 | ## New for next week 61 | ### Action items 62 | 63 | ### Discussion items 64 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2023-07-24.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2023-07-24 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2023-07-10.md) 5 | 6 | # Agenda & Notes 7 | 8 | ## New items to discuss 9 | 10 | - [Naming proposal](https://github.com/simonpj/hf-tech-proposals/blob/ghc-module-naming-2023/proposals/0000-ghc-module-naming.rst) 11 | - David asked if `import A.B.C` could import the `A.B.C` modules from *all* packages that are made available in the Cabal file. Answer: not currently. Would at very least require a GHC proposal. 12 | - Does the proposal address a question worth answering. Answer: yes, please. 13 | - Trevis: GHC API redesign. Good idea to have `GhcAPI.*` to distinguish from `GHC.*`. 14 | - Proposal 1/2/3: succcessive refinements, not alternatives! 15 | - Starting with `Experimental.Wombat.Thing` in `ghc-experimental`, and migrating to `Wombat.Thing` when it moves to `base`, forces clients to update their imports. In some ways using the *same* module name in `ghc-experimental` as in `base` could make this switchover easier. (But there would be have to be an extended period in which `Wombat.Thing` is available in *both* `ghc-experimental` and `base`. And that might leave a period in which `import Wombat.Thing` is ambiguous. But maybe if it simply moves, without a deprecation period, that'd be OK -- provided `base` and `ghc-experimental` come as a pair.... but that might conflict with reinstallable `base` goals.) 16 | - Worked example of introduction of features and their life cycle. 17 | - Tuple3 18 | - HasField 19 | - HasDict 20 | 21 | - Not everything in `ghc-experimental` will end up in `base`! 22 | - Timescale: first release with this stuff in will be 9.10, in around 6 months time. 23 | - Limited goals! 24 | - Expectations around `ghc-experimental`. 25 | - Major bump at every GHC release 26 | - Migration cost when moves to `base`. 27 | - Deprecation cycle is a reasonable expectation. Might prove impossible. 28 | 29 | - [Extension lifecycle framework proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/601) 30 | - Specifically, do we need to do anything else here? 31 | - Nothing for us to do at this time 32 | 33 | - [Crypton fork](https://github.com/yesodweb/wai/pull/931#issue-1743179602) 34 | - Hackage trustees have historically been very reluctant to give control over part of the namespace to someone new, if the author can be contacted and doesn't want to - is this the right policy? 35 | - This has frequently not ended well in other communities 36 | - A vulnerability that goes unadressed for a long time in a security package that doesn't get updated is a big risk 37 | - We will now have a place to advertise security issues - the need for a takeover is reduced by this 38 | - [readFloat issue](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/23538) 39 | 40 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 41 | 42 | - [ ] Add to `mtl` migration guide a way to work with prior and new versions 43 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 44 | 45 | - [ ] Template Haskell 46 | - Adam started looking into [#20828](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/20828) (adding field names to TH AST) at Zurihac 47 | - David mentions that adding `hlint` checks enforcing use of 48 | selectors instead of positional matching would be useful 49 | 50 | ## In progress projects 51 | ### Updates 52 | 53 | - [ ] Conversations about GHC nightlies 54 | - Nightly releases are now available 55 | - Need recipes for how to use this. 56 | - Holding the token: Jappie 57 | - Result: https://github.com/jappeace/haskell-nightly 58 | 59 | - GHC API discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 60 | - Previously holding the token: David 61 | 62 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 63 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 64 | 65 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 66 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 67 | 68 | - [Creating and maintaining a set of hlint rules to promote stability](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/14) 69 | - Previously holding the token: Trevis 70 | - Opened [issue](https://github.com/ndmitchell/hlint/issues/1440) asking if we can write rules for typeclasses. 71 | 72 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects due to expected absence of token holder 73 | 74 | ## New for next week 75 | ### Action items 76 | 77 | ### Discussion items 78 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2023-08-07.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2023-08-07 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2023-07-24.md) 7 | 8 | # Agenda & Notes 9 | 10 | ## New items to discuss 11 | 12 | - [Extension lifecycle framework proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/601) 13 | - Under revision from David. 14 | - We are happy with "Stable" rather than "Mature", which seems to be what most people want. 15 | 16 | - [GHC2021 and TypeOperators](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/issues/551) 17 | - This was not intenional 18 | - Provides reason for a new version 19 | 20 | - [Naming proposal](https://github.com/simonpj/hf-tech-proposals/blob/ghc-module-naming-2023/proposals/0000-ghc-module-naming.rst) 21 | - SPJ now proposes: 22 | - `ghc-experimental`: use suffix `*.Experimental`. 23 | - E.g. `Data.Tuple.Experimental` 24 | - `ghc-internal` and `ghc-prim`: use prefix `GHC.Internal.*` 25 | - e.g. `GHC.Internal.Base`. 26 | - We won't use a `.Experimental` suffix here. 27 | - Change package name to singular: `ghc-internal` 28 | - No reqt to signal the package name (`ghc-prim` vs `ghc-internal`) in the module name. We can have `GHC.Internal` in `ghc-prim`. Indeed we might want all these GHC-internal modules to be `GHC.Internal.*`. 29 | - `base`: stay with existing e.g. `GHC.Base` 30 | - `ghc` (the GHC-as-a-library API): has 700-ish modules (GHC itself) all starting `GHC.*`. The door open to: 31 | - new package `ghc-api` with a (more) stable API 32 | - module namespace within the current `ghc` package, e.g. `GhcAPI.*` 33 | - https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/snippets/5732 34 | 35 | - Group is happy with these proposals. 36 | 37 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 38 | 39 | - [ ] Add to `mtl` migration guide a way to work with prior and new versions 40 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 41 | 42 | - [ ] Template Haskell 43 | - Adam started looking into [#20828](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/20828) (adding field names to TH AST) at Zurihac 44 | - David mentions that adding `hlint` checks enforcing use of 45 | selectors instead of positional matching would be useful 46 | 47 | ## In progress projects 48 | ### Updates 49 | 50 | - GHC API discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 51 | - Previously holding the token: David 52 | 53 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 54 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 55 | 56 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 57 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 58 | 59 | - [Creating and maintaining a set of hlint rules to promote stability](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/14) 60 | - Previously holding the token: Trevis 61 | - Opened [issue](https://github.com/ndmitchell/hlint/issues/1440) asking if we can write rules for typeclasses. 62 | 63 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects due to expected absence of token holder 64 | 65 | ## New for next week 66 | ### Action items 67 | 68 | ### Discussion items 69 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2023-08-21.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2023-08-21 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2023-08-07.md) 7 | 8 | # Agenda & Notes 9 | 10 | ## New items to discuss 11 | 12 | - Followup to extension lifecycle: decide on a process and get classification started 13 | - Trevis to do first pass of creating list with lots of expected gaps. 14 | 15 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 16 | - None 17 | 18 | ## In progress projects 19 | ### Updates 20 | 21 | - [Extension lifecycle framework proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/601) 22 | - After deprecation/removal of extensions, have a nice error message. 23 | - This is analogous to the REMOVED pragma for top level declarations. 24 | - https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/language-pragma-history 25 | 26 | - GHC API discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 27 | - HF to look at funding for this. 28 | - Previously holding the token: David 29 | 30 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 31 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 32 | 33 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 34 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 35 | 36 | - [Creating and maintaining a set of hlint rules to promote stability](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/14) 37 | - Previously holding the token: Trevis 38 | - Opened [issue](https://github.com/ndmitchell/hlint/issues/1440) asking if we can write rules for typeclasses. 39 | 40 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects due to expected absence of token holder 41 | 42 | ## New for next week 43 | ### Action items 44 | 45 | ### Discussion items 46 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2023-09-04.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2023-09-04 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2023-08-21.md) 7 | 8 | # Agenda & Notes 9 | 10 | ## New items to discuss 11 | 12 | - Followup to extension lifecycle: decide on a process and get classification started 13 | 14 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 15 | - None 16 | 17 | ## In progress projects 18 | ### Updates 19 | 20 | - [Extension lifecycle framework proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/601) 21 | - After deprecation/removal of extensions, have a nice error message. 22 | - This is analogous to the REMOVED pragma for top level declarations. 23 | - https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/language-pragma-history 24 | 25 | - GHC API discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 26 | - HF to look at funding for this. 27 | - Previously holding the token: David 28 | 29 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 30 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 31 | 32 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 33 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 34 | 35 | - [Creating and maintaining a set of hlint rules to promote stability](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/14) 36 | - Previously holding the token: Trevis 37 | - Opened [issue](https://github.com/ndmitchell/hlint/issues/1440) asking if we can write rules for typeclasses. 38 | 39 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects due to expected absence of token holder 40 | 41 | ## New for next week 42 | ### Action items 43 | 44 | ### Discussion items 45 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2023-10-02.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2023-10-02 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2023-09-18.md) 7 | 8 | # Agenda & Notes 9 | 10 | ## New items to discuss 11 | 12 | - How can we support the [stable api work](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/charting-a-course-toward-a-stable-api-for-ghc/7646) 13 | - Reach out in solidarity for the effort. 14 | - Invite to next meeting. 15 | - Holding the token: Trevis 16 | - Nightly builds from email 17 | - How widespread is the desire for nightlies? 18 | - Maintenance resources are finite 19 | - Best effort currently; cannot promise dependeable nightly builds without more resources 20 | - One cause of failures: patches land, based on testing on a few platforms. Nightly build fails because the patch doesn't work on some other platform/configuration. It's good to have daily knowlege of this happening; not so good to have to guarantee that every nightly build works on every platform/configuation. 21 | - Maybe we could say 22 | - Dependable nightlies for some platforms (the ones we use in per-MR tests); e.g. certain Linux distributions Ubuntu/Debian/Fedora; Windows; mac(?) 23 | - Non-dependable versions on a best-effort basis, but may well be broken. 24 | - Nightlies version of [platforms](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/platforms) 25 | - Not wanting to add stress to team! 26 | - 27 | - [GHC Steering committee Stability pre-proposal](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wtbAK6cUhiAmM6eHV5TLh8azEdNtsmGwm47ZulgaZds/edit?usp=sharing); 28 | - Relates to: [GHC proposal #601](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/601). 29 | - Relates to: [`-Wsevere` proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/571) 30 | - Re the `-Wsevere` proposal, Chris proposes the following tweak 31 | - New language extension:`-XWombat` implies `-Werror=severe` 32 | - Then, later `GHC202x` implies `-XWombat` 33 | - Why a new language extension? We could just say `GHC2024` implies `-Werror=severe`. But generally GHC20x doesn't affect warning settings, so maybe this would be a change in policy? 34 | - This relates to conversations here: 35 | - 36 | 37 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 38 | - None 39 | 40 | ## In progress projects 41 | ### Updates 42 | 43 | - [Extension lifecycle framework proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/601) 44 | 45 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 46 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 47 | 48 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 49 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 50 | 51 | - [Creating and maintaining a set of hlint rules to promote stability](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/14) 52 | - Previously holding the token: Trevis 53 | - Opened [issue](https://github.com/ndmitchell/hlint/issues/1440) asking if we can write rules for typeclasses. 54 | 55 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects due to expected absence of token holder 56 | 57 | ## New for next week 58 | 59 | - Template Haskell 60 | - https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/24021 61 | 62 | ### Action items 63 | 64 | ### Discussion items 65 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2023-10-16.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2023-10-16 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2023-10-02.md) 7 | 8 | # Agenda & Notes 9 | 10 | ## New items to discuss 11 | 12 | - Primary discussion was around a topic requested to be not shared at this time. 13 | 14 | - [experimental flag](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/617) 15 | 16 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 17 | - None 18 | 19 | ## In progress projects 20 | ### Updates 21 | 22 | - [Extension lifecycle framework proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/601) 23 | 24 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 25 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 26 | 27 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 28 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 29 | 30 | - [Creating and maintaining a set of hlint rules to promote stability](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/14) 31 | - Previously holding the token: Trevis 32 | - Opened [issue](https://github.com/ndmitchell/hlint/issues/1440) asking if we can write rules for typeclasses. 33 | 34 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects due to expected absence of token holder 35 | 36 | ## New for next week 37 | 38 | ### Discussion items 39 | - [Template Haskell issue](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/24021) 40 | 41 | - [GHC2024 Proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/613) 42 | 43 | ### Action items 44 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2023-10-30.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2023-10-30 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2023-10-16.md) 7 | 8 | # Agenda & Notes 9 | 10 | ## New items to discuss 11 | 12 | - [Template Haskell issue](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/24021) 13 | - Perhpas related to this [reinstallable base](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/h2z2ELauQs2vzhPDeUDr_g#) doc. 14 | - Saving this for when Ben is present. 15 | 16 | - [GHC2024 Proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/613) 17 | - Particularly welcome `-XExplicitNameSpaces` because the current situation is: 18 | - `TypeOperators` implies `ExplicitNameSpaces` 19 | - `TypeOperators` is in GHC2021; but `ExplicitNameSpaces` is not. Weird! 20 | - Principle: if X is in GHC202x then all of X's implications should be. 21 | - General question: would shifting from GHC2021 to GHC2024 break any code? E.g. `-XLambdaCase` would not. 22 | - But switching on `MonoLocalBinds` by default definitely will break code. 23 | - Would like a deprecation cycle with a warning `-Wmono-local-binds`: compiles with `-XNoMonoLocalBinds`, but emits a warning if a locally-bound value is used polymorphically. (Because then `-XMonoLocalbinds` will errror.) The warning could give the signature to add. 24 | 25 | 26 | - Semantics of implications. 27 | - `-XGADTs` implies `-XMonoLocalBinds`. 28 | - If you say `-XGADTs -XNoGADTs` what is the effect on `MonoLocalBinds`. 29 | - Trevis: off 30 | - Mikolaj: would like this to switch `MonoLocalBinds` off. 31 | - Jappie: on [this is the correct answer] 32 | 33 | - More realistically, suppose `-XGADTs` and `-XMonoLocalBinds` were in GHC2024, and GHC2024 was the default language edition, and you say `ghc -XNoGADTs`. 34 | - Trevis: `-XGHC2024` switches on all its implications "explicitly"; `-XNoGADTs` only switches off `-XMonoLocalBinds` "implicitly". And explicit wins. 35 | - Mikolaj: Now `-XGADTs` is not on, but `-XGHC2024` is, and the latter is enough to keep `-XMonoLocalBinds` on. Reference counting! 36 | 37 | - Count votes: extension is on iff more `-XWombat` than `-XNoWombat`. 38 | - 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 43 | - None 44 | 45 | ## In progress projects 46 | ### Updates 47 | 48 | - [Extension lifecycle framework proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/601) 49 | 50 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 51 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 52 | 53 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 54 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 55 | 56 | - [Creating and maintaining a set of hlint rules to promote stability](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/14) 57 | - Previously holding the token: Trevis 58 | - Opened [issue](https://github.com/ndmitchell/hlint/issues/1440) asking if we can write rules for typeclasses. 59 | 60 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects due to expected absence of token holder 61 | 62 | ## New for next week 63 | 64 | ### Action items 65 | 66 | ### Discussion items 67 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2023-11-13.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2023-11-13 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2023-10-30.md) 7 | 8 | # Agenda & Notes 9 | 10 | ## New items to discuss 11 | 12 | - [Extensions and Warnings Proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/620) 13 | - Initial reaction: "oh no --- more language extensions to explain" 14 | - Warnings and language extensions "feel qualititively different". 15 | - Extensions: allow new things 16 | - Warnings: warn (or prevent) old things 17 | - Compiling with warning off gives same semantics as compiling with warnings on. *All warnings are conservative* 18 | - If you compile with -XWarnWombat; and then suppress warnings, the same program will compile and run with the same semantics. That is, all warnings remain conservative. 19 | 20 | Example from Orville: 21 | when: 22 | - condition: flag(ci) 23 | then: 24 | ghc-options: 25 | - -Wall 26 | - -Werror 27 | - -Wcompat 28 | - -Widentities 29 | - -Wincomplete-uni-patterns 30 | - -Wincomplete-patterns 31 | - -Wincomplete-record-updates 32 | - -Wmissing-local-signatures 33 | - -Wmissing-export-lists 34 | - -Wmissing-import-lists 35 | - -Wnoncanonical-monad-instances 36 | - -Wredundant-constraints 37 | - -Wpartial-fields 38 | - -Wmissed-specialisations 39 | - -Wno-implicit-prelude 40 | - -Wno-safe 41 | - -Wno-unsafe 42 | else: 43 | ghc-options: 44 | - -Wall 45 | - -fwarn-incomplete-uni-patterns 46 | - -fwarn-incomplete-record-updates 47 | 48 | Under the proposal 49 | 50 | - condition: flag(ci) 51 | then: 52 | ghc-options: 53 | - -Wall 54 | - -Wcompat 55 | - -XNoIdentities 56 | - -XNoIncompleteUniPatterns 57 | ... 58 | else: 59 | ghc-options: 60 | - -Wall 61 | - -XWarnIncompleteUniPatterns 62 | - -fWarnIncompleteRecordUpdates 63 | 64 | The CI flag is because the user might be compiling with a different verison of GHC, one that (say) didn't understand `-Widentities`. 65 | 66 | Worry: a user might compile the package with an extra flag `-XIdentities`, or with a version of of GHC for which `-XIdentities` does something different. 67 | 68 | Language extensions: 69 | - XMultiParamTypeClasses in CI 70 | - But off in distribution 71 | Obv that would break 72 | 73 | - XWarnMultiParamTypeClasses in CI 74 | - but off in distribution 75 | 76 | Claim: if -XWarnFoo works in CI, then `-XFoo` will work in distribution. 77 | No need to look up "is this extension conservative?" 78 | 79 | "We argue about extensions but not about warnings". Do we like `BlockArguments` or `GADTs` or `TypeFamilies`. Is the value useful. But we don't argue about `-Wname-shadowing` or `-Wincomplete-patterns`. Switching on extensions "no by default"; switching warnings "yes by default". 80 | 81 | Everyone agrees: making a language edition fix a set of *warnings* as well as a set of *extensions* is (highly) desirable. 82 | 83 | david@flipstone.com 84 | 85 | - [Template Haskell issue](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/24021) 86 | - Perhaps related to this [reinstallable base](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/h2z2ELauQs2vzhPDeUDr_g#) doc. 87 | 88 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 89 | - None 90 | 91 | ## In progress projects 92 | ### Updates 93 | 94 | - [Extension lifecycle framework proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/601) 95 | 96 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 97 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 98 | 99 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 100 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 101 | 102 | - [Creating and maintaining a set of hlint rules to promote stability](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/14) 103 | - Previously holding the token: Trevis 104 | - Opened [issue](https://github.com/ndmitchell/hlint/issues/1440) asking if we can write rules for typeclasses. 105 | 106 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects due to expected absence of token holder 107 | 108 | ## New for next week 109 | 110 | ### Action items 111 | 112 | ### Discussion items 113 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2023-11-27.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2023-11-27 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2023-11-13.md) 7 | 8 | # Agenda & Notes 9 | 10 | ## New items to discuss 11 | 12 | - [Template Haskell issue](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/24021) 13 | - Perhaps related to this [reinstallable base](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/h2z2ELauQs2vzhPDeUDr_g#) doc. 14 | - Reinstallable base 15 | - Ongoing work 16 | - Goal: extend reinstallable-base to template-haskell 17 | - Needs reinstallable base first 18 | - Actions: Ben and Simon to polish reinstallable base proposal. 19 | - Will become HF Tech Track proposal 20 | 21 | - [c2hs breakage](https://github.com/haskell/c2hs/issues/291) 22 | - Possibilities: 23 | - Move away from c2hs (towards hsc2hs) 24 | - Port c2hs to another parser (e.g. clang) 25 | - Continue with the status quo, patching things as necessary 26 | - Hybrids of the above 27 | - [ghc-experimental](https://github.com/haskell/core-libraries-committee/issues/200) 28 | - ghc-experimental doesn't seem like a huge benefit for this one specific case, as pointed out in thread. 29 | 30 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 31 | - None 32 | 33 | ## In progress projects 34 | ### Updates 35 | 36 | - [Extension lifecycle framework proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/601) 37 | 38 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 39 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 40 | 41 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 42 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 43 | 44 | - [Creating and maintaining a set of hlint rules to promote stability](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/14) 45 | - Previously holding the token: Trevis 46 | - Opened [issue](https://github.com/ndmitchell/hlint/issues/1440) asking if we can write rules for typeclasses. 47 | 48 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects due to expected absence of token holder 49 | 50 | ## New for next week 51 | 52 | ### Action items 53 | 54 | ### Discussion items 55 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2023-12-11.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2023-12-11 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2023-11-27.md) 7 | 8 | # Agenda & Notes 9 | 10 | ## New items to discuss 11 | 12 | - [Transition for loopy-superclass-solve](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/24253) 13 | - Is it reasonable to have 9.6.4 with it in Wcompat? 14 | - What is the policy? 15 | - https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/blob/wip/general-rules/principles.rst#3ghc-stability-principles 16 | - Says no warning stability 17 | - Do we want `-Wcompat`? 18 | - Suggestion is to removal; Simon will add to GHC proposal https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/625 19 | - Future releases of 9.6/9.8 should include ability to name; Ben has marked !11421 for backport, which means it'll be in any future point releases of these compilers. 20 | - Cannot happen again in the future by https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/merge_requests/11421 21 | - How can prevent the documentation miss? 22 | - In particular, which flags are in which flag-groups. See https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/24255 23 | 24 | - Reinstallable base 25 | - Somehow making Template Haskell more stable is potentially more impactful than reinstallable base 26 | - See https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/20828, https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/24021. Some good discussion here! 27 | - Relevant package: https://hackage.haskell.org/package/th-abstraction 28 | - Might need more advertisement/promotion to use this over `template-haskell` itself. 29 | - Advertise a potential HF project to design/build a th-abstraction like project. 30 | - Need to write what that would look like 31 | - Goals/design issues. 32 | 33 | Thoughts from Ryan GL Scott on `th-abstraction`'s design: 34 | 35 | > Briefly, my thoughts on th-abstraction is that it attempts to satisfy two 36 | > related (but distinct) concerns: 37 | > 38 | > - It provides a semantic, rather than a syntactic, representation of 39 | > data type definitions that applies equally to both ordinary data types and 40 | > data family instances. 41 | > - It provides an API that smoothes over the differences in the 42 | > template-haskell API across GHC versions. 43 | > 44 | > Because it is trying to do both things simultaneously, I'm not convinced 45 | > that th-abstraction would be an ideal API for reification in general. 46 | > Nevertheless, perhaps there are some lessons that could be learned from it 47 | > going forward. 48 | 49 | Call to action for Template Haskell: https://edit.smart-cactus.org/C-0XLaG1QoaEo8qhI6sK8w (Simon will start) 50 | 51 | 52 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 53 | 54 | - None 55 | 56 | ## In progress projects 57 | ### Updates 58 | 59 | - [Extension lifecycle framework proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/601) 60 | 61 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 62 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 63 | 64 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 65 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 66 | 67 | - [Creating and maintaining a set of hlint rules to promote stability](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/14) 68 | - Previously holding the token: Trevis 69 | - Opened [issue](https://github.com/ndmitchell/hlint/issues/1440) asking if we can write rules for typeclasses. 70 | 71 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects due to expected absence of token holder 72 | 73 | ## New for next week 74 | 75 | ### Action items 76 | 77 | ### Discussion items 78 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2024-01-08.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2024-01-08 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2023-12-11.md) 7 | 8 | # Agenda & Notes 9 | 10 | ## New items to discuss 11 | 12 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 13 | - None 14 | 15 | ## In progress projects 16 | ### Updates 17 | 18 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 19 | - Agreed: #601 should morph (or make new proposal) to define stable/experimental/legacy/deprecated extensions *and* categorise existing extensions. 20 | - Move other aspects of #601 into #628 (Trevis with help from Jose) 21 | - #628 and #617 belong together 22 | 23 | - [Three-release policy](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/issues/629) 24 | 25 | - [Extension lifecycle framework proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/601) 26 | 27 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 28 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 29 | 30 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 31 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 32 | 33 | - [Creating and maintaining a set of hlint rules to promote stability](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/14) 34 | - Previously holding the token: Trevis 35 | - Opened [issue](https://github.com/ndmitchell/hlint/issues/1440) asking if we can write rules for typeclasses. 36 | 37 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects due to expected absence of token holder 38 | 39 | ## New for next week 40 | 41 | ### Action items 42 | 43 | ### Discussion items 44 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2024-01-22.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2024-01-22 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2024-01-08.md) 7 | 8 | # Agenda & Notes 9 | 10 | ## New items to discuss 11 | 12 | - From community (private communication): noticed that release notes for GHC 9.6.4 reference issues 13 | that appear to still be open? What does this mean? Are they fixed? 14 | - Examples: [23952](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/23952) and 15 | [23185](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/23185) 16 | - Generally, issues being open still even after a release, is expected. Issues are kept open 17 | (a) for backports or (b) if there is more work to be done. 18 | - 23952 is in fact not fixed in 9.6.4, error in release notes. 19 | 20 | 21 | - Seeking information about stability, to inform prioritisation: 22 | - What delays or prevents you updating to a new version of GHC? 23 | - Be specific, concrete, precise. 24 | - Offer a menu of causes for delay: 25 | - `base` API changed 26 | - Template Haskell API changed 27 | - Dependent libraries have not been updated 28 | - Behaviour of the compiler itself, with the same flags, changes. 29 | - Dependent tooling have not been updates (hls, cabal, stack, hlint, etc). 30 | - We maintain a fork of GHC 31 | - Other (say what) 32 | 33 | - For each, offer a free-text box to be more specific. 34 | - Things under discussion that might help. What priority would you give them? Recognising 35 | finite resources etc. 36 | - Reinstallable `base` (see [these 37 | notes](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/h2z2ELauQs2vzhPDeUDr_g#)) 38 | - Stable TH API: [#24021](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/24021), 39 | [#20828](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/20828) 40 | - [GHC.X.Hackage](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27): Hopefully 41 | will reduce time to libraries supporting new GHC releases 42 | - Some kind of [3-release 43 | policy](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/issues/629) 44 | - Other (please say what) 45 | 46 | 47 | Vaguely related: https://discourse.haskell.org/t/devops-weekly-log-2024-01-17/8584/8 48 | 49 | 50 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 51 | - None 52 | 53 | ## In progress projects 54 | ### Updates 55 | 56 | 57 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability 58 | issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 59 | 60 | - [Three-release policy](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/issues/629) 61 | 62 | - [Extension lifecycle framework 63 | proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/601) 64 | - Subsumed by [Renovating GHC's extensions 65 | mechanism](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/628) 66 | rst:https://github.com/goldfirere/ghc-proposals/blob/extensions/manifestoes/extensions.rst 67 | 68 | - Bulletin discussed 69 | [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 70 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 71 | 72 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed 73 | [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 74 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 75 | 76 | - [Creating and maintaining a set of hlint rules to promote 77 | stability](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/pull/14) 78 | - Previously holding the token: Trevis 79 | - Opened [issue](https://github.com/ndmitchell/hlint/issues/1440) asking if we can write rules 80 | for typeclasses. 81 | 82 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects due to expected absence of token holder 83 | 84 | ## New for next week 85 | 86 | ### Action items 87 | 88 | ### Discussion items 89 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2024-02-05.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | --- 2 | tags: swg 3 | --- 4 | 5 | SWG 2024-02-05 6 | ============== 7 | 8 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 9 | 10 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2024-01-22.md) 11 | 12 | # Agenda & Notes 13 | 14 | ## New items to discuss 15 | 16 | - [Fortified language editions](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/636) 17 | - To discuss next time 18 | 19 | - Question: How "experimental" is Experimental? Some hard cases 20 | - If too much is "experimental" it loses its value. 21 | - Simple policies are good. It would be good to say "we don't use experimental features" 22 | - Type families: the current design really is not fully satisfying. But they are so widely used that it'll force too many uses to accept experimental-ness. Put another way, this wide use means that GHC devs should be careful about breaking changes (as in #625). 23 | - Action working group: contribute to #635. 24 | 25 | - Question: how important are the "library stability" proposals? 26 | - [Reinstallable base](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/h2z2ELauQs2vzhPDeUDr_g#) 27 | - [A more stable Template Haskell API](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/24021) 28 | 29 | If important, then we could (a) more precisely specify the task, (b) figure out how much it would cost, and `(c)` seek resources to get something done. 30 | 31 | - Discussed a possible tightly-focused survey, along the lines of [last times's notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2024-01-22.md). 32 | - How to get it to the right people? 33 | - Scrape Hackage maintainer addresses 34 | - Write specifically to sponsors 35 | - Haskell Discourse, ghc-devs 36 | 37 | - Need to refine the list of obstacles. 38 | - Get help from Taylor F? Who used to run the [State of Haskell survey](https://taylor.fausak.me/2022/11/18/haskell-survey-results/). 39 | - Perhaps ask for the direct dependencies that are blockers when upgrading? 40 | 41 | ## Jappie's proposed survey 42 | 43 | Who are you? 44 | + a student 45 | + a professional developer 46 | + a researcher 47 | 48 | I use haskell 49 | + a couple times per day 50 | + a couple times per month 51 | + a couple times per year 52 | 53 | I use haskell for 54 | + hobby programming 55 | + some commercial software 56 | + both 57 | 58 | what stops you from upgrading ghc? 59 | 60 | what are your major pain points when upgrading ghc ? 61 | 62 | are there any dependencies that caused upgrade issues? if yes please list them 63 | 64 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 65 | - None 66 | 67 | ## In progress projects 68 | ### Updates 69 | 70 | - [Extension lifecycle framework proposal #601](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/601) 71 | - Under renovation to serve as basis for [Renovating GHC's extensions mechanism #628](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/628) and [Articulate stability goals #625](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/625) 72 | - Pretty short: Experimental, Stable, Discouraged, Deprecated. 73 | - Relates to Adam's [classification proposal #635](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/discussions/635) 74 | 75 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 76 | 77 | - [Three-release policy](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/issues/629) 78 | 79 | 80 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 81 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 82 | 83 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 84 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 85 | 86 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects due to expected absence of token holder 87 | 88 | ## New for next week 89 | 90 | ### Action items 91 | 92 | ### Discussion items 93 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2024-02-19.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | --- 2 | tags: swg 3 | --- 4 | 5 | SWG 2024-02-19 6 | ============== 7 | 8 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 9 | 10 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2024-02-05.md) 11 | 12 | # Agenda & Notes 13 | 14 | ## New items to discuss 15 | 16 | - [Fortified language editions](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/636) 17 | - This is big 18 | - Can we reduce scope somehow? 19 | - Take GHC20XX + warnings + stability statement? 20 | - Bundles might be _more_ confusing for exactly the users that it seems to target. 21 | - Proposal would seem to be much lighter if we said the bundles were seperate. 22 | 23 | - https://edit.smart-cactus.org/4j4gkZuUQj2fWwG9z8mQrQ 24 | 25 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 26 | - None 27 | 28 | ## In progress projects 29 | ### Updates 30 | 31 | - [Extension lifecycle framework proposal #601](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/601) 32 | - Under renovation to serve as basis for [Renovating GHC's extensions mechanism #628](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/628) and [Articulate stability goals #625](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/625) 33 | - Pretty short: Experimental, Stable, Discouraged, Deprecated. 34 | - Relates to Adam's [classification proposal #635](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/discussions/635) 35 | 36 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 37 | 38 | - [Three-release policy](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/issues/629) 39 | 40 | 41 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 42 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 43 | 44 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 45 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 46 | 47 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects due to expected absence of token holder 48 | 49 | ## New for next week 50 | 51 | ### Action items 52 | 53 | ### Discussion items 54 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2024-03-04.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | --- 2 | tags: swg 3 | --- 4 | 5 | SWG 2024-03-04 6 | ============== 7 | 8 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 9 | 10 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2024-02-19.md) 11 | 12 | # Agenda & Notes 13 | 14 | ## New items to discuss 15 | 16 | - [Draft](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/4j4gkZuUQj2fWwG9z8mQrQ) of update to [Extension lifecycle framework proposal #601](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/601) 17 | - Main payload: proposes 5 categories: Stable, Experimental, Preview, Deprecated, Legacy. 18 | - These would be the categories into which #635 will divide language extensions. 19 | - Is there a useful distinction between Experimental and Preview? Preview is just "even more experimental" than Experimental. E.g. LinearTypes are much more experimental than TypeFamilies. 20 | - SPJ instinct: start with Stable/Experimental/Deprecated/Legacy; that will result in less bike-shedding. An uncontroversial step in the right direction. 21 | - **Action**: Trevis will publish as an update to #601. 22 | 23 | - [Fortifying language editions #636](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/636). Payload: 24 | - Easy win: language edition can affect 25 | - warnings 26 | - error messages 27 | - More doubtful: language edition can affect the meaning of (say) `-XGADTs` 28 | - definite costs as well as benefit 29 | - More doubtful: nanny-state disallow some extensions in some editions, retiring language editions. 30 | - Semantics bundles (synonyms for a collection of extensions and warnings): put in separate proposal. 31 | - Default language edition 32 | - Arguably max stability from: default = Haskell2010 33 | 34 | - **Action**: all: express views on #636. 35 | 36 | 37 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 38 | - None 39 | 40 | ## In progress projects 41 | ### Updates 42 | 43 | - [Extension lifecycle framework proposal #601](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/601) 44 | - Under renovation to serve as basis for [Renovating GHC's extensions mechanism #628](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/628) and [Articulate stability goals #625](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/625) 45 | - Pretty short: Experimental, Stable, Discouraged, Deprecated. 46 | - Relates to Adam's [classification proposal #635](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/discussions/635) 47 | 48 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 49 | 50 | - [Three-release policy](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/issues/629) 51 | 52 | 53 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 54 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 55 | 56 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 57 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 58 | 59 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects due to expected absence of token holder 60 | 61 | ## New for next week 62 | 63 | ### Action items 64 | 65 | ### Discussion items 66 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2024-03-18.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2024-03-18 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2024-03-04.md) 7 | 8 | # Agenda & Notes 9 | 10 | ## New items to discuss 11 | 12 | - [ghc-pkg, Cabal, stack, and plugins](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/24518) 13 | - Could we separate out the bits of cabal ghc needs to a separate package? 14 | - In theory it could happen 15 | - Need a cabal release. 16 | - Don't know what is involved there. 17 | - Cabal release is "slowly moving forward". 18 | - Conclusion: fix this issue and hope we don't hit it again. 19 | - Idea: Get more cross team involvement: Various parties invited to the Thursday Cabal sync 20 | 21 | - [Gracefully handling package abandonment](https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stackage/issues/7336) 22 | - A member of the community reached out for us to discuss this. 23 | - Botan bindings as an example: 24 | - Community groups with multiple maintainers 25 | - 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 30 | - None 31 | 32 | ## In progress projects 33 | ### Updates 34 | 35 | - [Extension lifecycle framework proposal #601](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/601) 36 | - Under renovation to serve as basis for [Renovating GHC's extensions mechanism #628](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/628) and [Articulate stability goals #625](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/625) 37 | - Pretty short: Experimental, Stable, Discouraged, Deprecated. 38 | - Relates to Adam's [classification proposal #635](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/discussions/635) 39 | 40 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 41 | 42 | - [Three-release policy](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/issues/629) 43 | 44 | 45 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 46 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 47 | 48 | - GHC warning policy document as discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-05-30.md) 49 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 50 | 51 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects due to expected absence of token holder 52 | 53 | ## New for next week 54 | 55 | ### Action items 56 | 57 | ### Discussion items 58 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2024-04-01.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2024-04-01 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2024-03-18.md) 7 | 8 | # Agenda & Notes 9 | 10 | ## New items to discuss 11 | 12 | - [Abandoned packages](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/abandoned-haskell-packages/9168) 13 | - We discussed this last time, but the community is clearly concerned/interested here 14 | - From last time: 15 | - Botan bindings as an example: 16 | - Community groups with multiple maintainers 17 | - Can HF help here? 18 | - Require some group of maintainership for sponsored projects? 19 | - Or a transition plan? 20 | - GHC.X.Hackage: https://github.com/haskellfoundation/tech-proposals/pull/27 21 | - Could allow anyone to submit changes to work with ghc 22 | - Community could move faster to update 23 | - What about required api changes that the maintainer doesn't agree with? 24 | - This effectively splits the package among users with one set of changes vs "official" 25 | - See Mozilla disallowing changes made to firefox (creating iceweasel.) 26 | - Complementary with Stackage development process, which manually prompts package authors to update their packages 27 | - Note that GHC devs already maintain head.hackage, which *already* contains patches for *all of Stackage* (so that we can test GHC against it). 28 | - Sometimes a fork exists, and is maintained, but people may not be aware of that 29 | - How is it communicated to users? 30 | 31 | - Are there stability related projects to promote at Zurihac? 32 | 33 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 34 | - None 35 | 36 | ## In progress projects 37 | ### Updates 38 | 39 | - [Extension lifecycle framework proposal #601](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/601) 40 | - Has been rennovated! 41 | - mention https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/discussions/635 and 636. 42 | 43 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 44 | 45 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects 46 | 47 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 48 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 49 | 50 | 51 | ## New for next week 52 | 53 | ### Action items 54 | 55 | ### Discussion items 56 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2024-04-15.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2024-04-15 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2024-04-01.md) 7 | 8 | # Agenda & Notes 9 | 10 | ## New items to discuss 11 | 12 | - Are there stability related projects to promote at Zurihac? 13 | - hackage improvements 14 | - recommendations for packages/gold star 15 | - error message index 16 | - Are there metrics on page views for errors with no explanation? 17 | - Any metrics at all? 18 | - Cabal integration? 19 | - security db integration 20 | - In person session prioritizing stability pain points. 21 | - Idea: Give 5 pain points with detail, ask for rank and other issues not included. 22 | - GHC upgrade pain points 23 | - [GHC 9.6 issues to prevent recommendation by ghcup](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/rfc-ghcup-should-ghc-9-6-4-be-recommended/9325/11) 24 | - https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/24518 25 | - Linker issues in thread, but no tickets 26 | - Suspect this might be in part because of hurdles to report issues 27 | - Could it be possible to report issues without gitlab account 28 | - Idea: github mirror with bot that will post issues to gitlab - allowing for more "drive by issues". 29 | - Who is responsible for doing these kinds of tests? 30 | - GHC team _could_ do this 31 | - https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc-hq/-/tree/main 32 | - https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/platforms 33 | - Community members, have not reported these in the 4 point releases so far. 34 | - To be brought up with GHC team 35 | 36 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 37 | 38 | - JMCT: What would a GitHub mirror that posts to GHC Gitlab look like? 39 | - Is it possible? If not, why not? 40 | - (Doesn't have to be a 'mirror' per se, but could be a separate project that guides users to the correct places) 41 | 42 | ## In progress projects 43 | ### Updates 44 | 45 | - [Extension lifecycle framework proposal #601](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/601) 46 | - Has been rennovated! 47 | 48 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 49 | 50 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects 51 | 52 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 53 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 54 | 55 | 56 | ## New for next week 57 | 58 | ### Action items 59 | 60 | ### Discussion items 61 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2024-04-29.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | --- 2 | tags: swg 3 | --- 4 | 5 | SWG 2024-04-29 6 | ============== 7 | 8 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 9 | 10 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2024-04-15.md) 11 | 12 | # Agenda & Notes 13 | 14 | ## New items to discuss 15 | 16 | - Simon's [Stability state of play 17 | doc](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit) 18 | update. 19 | - Prelude could be reinstallable 20 | - Imagine it was any other package except 21 | - If no explicit dependency, then [something] sets a default. 22 | - Cabal private dependencies might be a way to achieve this. 23 | - May require [private dependencies](https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/4035); things 24 | - Investigate head.hackage, what breakages in base or Prelude are needed? More precisely, which 25 | of (1)-(5) in the state-of-play doc caused the need for the head.hackage patch? 26 | - Are there others not listed? 27 | - Holding the token: Ben 28 | - Industrial use; tension between long term support and accessibility/usability 29 | 30 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 31 | 32 | 33 | ## In progress projects 34 | ### Updates 35 | 36 | - JMCT: What would a GitHub mirror that posts to GHC GitLab look like? 37 | 38 | - [Extension lifecycle framework proposal 39 | #601](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/601) 40 | - Has been renovated! 41 | 42 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability 43 | issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 44 | 45 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects 46 | 47 | - Bulletin discussed 48 | [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 49 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 50 | 51 | 52 | ## New for next week 53 | 54 | ### Action items 55 | 56 | ### Discussion items 57 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2024-05-13.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | SWG 2024-05-13 2 | ============== 3 | 4 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 5 | 6 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2024-04-29.md) 7 | 8 | # Agenda & Notes 9 | 10 | ## New items to discuss 11 | 12 | 13 | - [GHC 9.10.1](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/ghc-9-10-1-is-now-available/9523) and [breakage guide](https://github.com/tomjaguarpaw/tilapia/blob/master/breakage-inventory-ghc-9.10.md) 14 | - What about the GHC API. Invite Alexis? 15 | - Ben: will add notes in the user manual to explain how plugins can avoid relying on hard-coding name locations. 16 | - Ben is optimistic about low breakage with GHC 9.10.1 17 | 18 | - What do we think about [#24453](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/24453)? (Merge `ghc-prim`, `ghc-bignum`, `ghc-internal`) 19 | - Currently we get no gain, but we do get pain. 20 | - In future, it would be great to split out stuff, such as the IO library, thereby making them re-installable. Yes yes! But that's quite different to what we have now! 21 | - Conclusion: 22 | - thumbs up to general direction of #24453 23 | - explicitly flag up the goal of splitting out more re-installable packages, e.g. I/O. 24 | 25 | - Lots happening on the TH front -- invite Sebastian and Teo next time? 26 | - #24783: **tracking ticket** 27 | - #24021: Making TH more stable 28 | - #24713: hygiene 29 | - !12479: moving stuff into `ghc-internal` to make `template-haskell` (more) reinstallable. 30 | - #24766 exposing stuff from L.H.TH.Lib.Internal 31 | - etc 32 | - [Twitter discussion](https://x.com/ShriramKMurthi/status/1790047622675267727) 33 | - **Conclusion** Invite Teo and Sebastian to the next meeting. 34 | 35 | - Making Prelude reinstallable? (Discussed last time.) Design work needed. 36 | 37 | - Investigate [head.hackage](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/head.hackage) to answer this question: **for each patch in head.hackage, which of (1)-(5) in the [state-of-play doc](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) caused the need for the patch?** 38 | - Are there others not listed? 39 | - Holding the token: Ben 40 | - Patches: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/head.hackage/-/tree/master/patches?ref_type=heads 41 | 42 | - Making base reinstallable? 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 47 | 48 | 49 | ## In progress projects 50 | ### Updates 51 | 52 | - JMCT: What would a GitHub mirror that posts to GHC GitLab look like? 53 | 54 | - [Extension lifecycle framework proposal #601](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/601) 55 | - Has been renovated! 56 | 57 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 58 | 59 | 60 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects 61 | 62 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 63 | - Previously holding the token: Chris 64 | 65 | 66 | ## New for next week 67 | 68 | ### Action items 69 | 70 | - (jappie) 71 | go through [head.hackage](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/head.hackage/-/tree/master/patches?ref_type=heads 72 | ) categorise according to the [5 categories](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit) 73 | + as of today 74 | + as of one year ago 75 | + as of two years ago 76 | 77 | 78 | 79 | 80 | ### Discussion items 81 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2024-06-24.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | --- 2 | tags: swg 3 | --- 4 | 5 | SWG 2024-06-24 6 | ============== 7 | 8 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 9 | 10 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2024-05-27.md) 11 | 12 | # Attendees 13 | - Trevis Elser 14 | - Jose Calderon 15 | - Jappie 16 | 17 | # Agenda & Notes 18 | 19 | ## Items to discuss 20 | 21 | - Papercuts from newcomer to [hackage](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/publishing-my-first-package-in-hackage) 22 | - Primarily, the synchronization between hackage, cabal and ghcup is rough 23 | - `cabal check` improvement suggested in thread 24 | - We can look into/suggest this if not done already by those on the thread. 25 | - What else can we do to help smooth over these cross project bumps? 26 | 27 | - Tools for centralized discussion 28 | - Perhaps GHC is not included, or at least somehow secondary. GHC is already central due to its nature in the ecosystem. Potential minimum set: 29 | - cabal 30 | - hackage 31 | - ghcup 32 | - stack 33 | - hls 34 | - haddock 35 | 36 | - Any updates on Template Haskell? 37 | 38 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 39 | 40 | - (jappie) 41 | go through [head.hackage](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/head.hackage/-/tree/master/patches?ref_type=heads 42 | ) categorise according to the [5 categories](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit) 43 | + as of today 44 | https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNAn7qE1X7waI7lAIh9lOUKGuEb9HnRwGWNicaywASk/edit?usp=sharing 45 | + as of one year ago 46 | + as of two years ago 47 | 48 | ## In progress projects 49 | ### Updates 50 | 51 | - JMCT: What would a GitHub mirror that posts to GHC GitLab look like? 52 | 53 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 54 | 55 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects 56 | 57 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 58 | - Previously holding the token: 59 | 60 | 61 | ## New for next week 62 | 63 | ### Action items 64 | 65 | ### Discussion items 66 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2024-07-08.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | --- 2 | tags: swg 3 | --- 4 | 5 | SWG 2024-07-08 6 | ============== 7 | 8 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 9 | 10 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2024-06-24.md) 11 | 12 | # Attendees 13 | - Trevis Elser 14 | - Jappie 15 | - SPJ 16 | 17 | # Agenda & Notes 18 | 19 | ## Items to discuss 20 | 21 | 22 | - (jappie) 23 | go through [head.hackage](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/head.hackage/-/tree/master/patches?ref_type=heads 24 | ) categorise according to the [5 categories](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit) 25 | + as of today 26 | https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNAn7qE1X7waI7lAIh9lOUKGuEb9HnRwGWNicaywASk/edit?usp=sharing 27 | + (spj) it'd be nice to know the reason why these broke 28 | + (spj) it'd be nice to know which of the TH breakages would be solved by the TH roadmap (eg 1,2,3 or 4) 29 | + (spj) it'd be best to add a column if it can be compiled with 9.8 (since we then started caring) (this maybe difficult to do however) 30 | + (trevis) add a column with when the patch was added (or date of last modification) 31 | + how large is the head.hackage package set (how stable are we?), this is to provide contextual information, with these patches applied you can compile all of this. 32 | + as of one year ago 33 | + as of two years ago 34 | + for now we'll add the causes first, then add more snapshots from later ago. Adding the date column would also help. 35 | + we want to have this in a more digestable form so we can announce it. Eg provide context such as tell how many packages there are in head.hackage 36 | 37 | - [ghc 9.6.6](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/ghc-9-6-6-is-now-available/9852) 38 | - Ask ghc-dev list about timelines given 9.12, 9.10 and 9.8 have no information 39 | 40 | - [cabal 3.12.1.0](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/cabal-install-3-12-1-0-and-accompanying-libraries-released/9830/4) 41 | - Ask for a revision to release notes for clarity 42 | 43 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 44 | 45 | - (jappie) 46 | go through [head.hackage](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/head.hackage/-/tree/master/patches?ref_type=heads 47 | ) categorise according to the [5 categories](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit) 48 | + as of today 49 | https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNAn7qE1X7waI7lAIh9lOUKGuEb9HnRwGWNicaywASk/edit?usp=sharing 50 | + as of one year ago 51 | + as of two years ago 52 | 53 | ## In progress projects 54 | ### Updates 55 | 56 | - JMCT: What would a GitHub mirror that posts to GHC GitLab look like? 57 | 58 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 59 | 60 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects 61 | 62 | - Bulletin discussed [previously](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2022-10-17.md) 63 | 64 | ## New for next week 65 | 66 | ### Action items 67 | 68 | ### Discussion items 69 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2024-07-22.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | --- 2 | tags: swg 3 | --- 4 | 5 | SWG 2024-07-22 6 | ============== 7 | 8 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 9 | 10 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2024-07-08.md) 11 | 12 | # Attendees 13 | - Trevis Elser 14 | - Jappie 15 | - Simon PJ 16 | - Jose Calderon 17 | 18 | # Agenda & Notes 19 | 20 | ## Items to discuss 21 | 22 | - Broaden membership 23 | - Post on Haskell Discourse saying (**Trevis**) 24 | - where minutes are 25 | - what we have been discussing 26 | - when we meet 27 | - how to join the meeting (meetings are open) 28 | - possible "hook" for the post: classification of Hackage failures (once **Jappie** has posted) 29 | 30 | 31 | - Language extension stability classification next steps 32 | - Now that https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/blob/master/proposals/0601-extension-lifecycle-framework.md is accepted... 33 | - A GHC Proposal with a large set of extensions classified according to the accepted proposal 34 | - Start from: https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/discussions/635 35 | - With a note that, in order to make progress, if there is any controversy about how to classify a particular extension, the extension will not be classified in the proposal and considered again later. The proposal will list these explicitly. 36 | - **Jose** will summarise the #635 discussion (perhaps summary of the proposal is more appropriate). Could conceivably lead proposed polishing to (accepted) 37 | - **Trevis** will write the proposal 38 | 39 | - Cabal/GHC [big picture](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/ghc-and-cabal-the-big-picture/9968) 40 | - Could this be one concrete thing for a joint ecosystem team (GHC/cabal/HLS/stack/plugin authors) to work on? 41 | - Questions: can plugins alter any of this behaviour? 42 | - Want newbies to be represented. E.g. How to make a "batteries included" version of GHC, by asking Cabal to install a bunch of libraries. 43 | - **Jose** will try to get more eyes on this. 44 | 45 | - (Jappie) 46 | Go through [head.hackage](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/head.hackage/-/tree/master/patches?ref_type=heads 47 | ) categorise according to the [5 categories](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit) 48 | - Ask questions about head.hackage: ghc-devs@haskell.org 49 | - Then **Jappie** will make a post advertising the results (and limitations...) 50 | - Invite collaboration to take it further 51 | - Ideally: when adding/removing patches from head.hackage, update the counts. Clear mechanism for offering such an update. Maybe make the classification/counts part of head.hackage repo. 52 | 53 | 54 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 55 | 56 | - None 57 | 58 | ## In progress projects 59 | ### Updates 60 | 61 | - JMCT: What would a GitHub mirror that posts to GHC GitLab look like? 62 | 63 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 64 | 65 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects 66 | 67 | ## New for next week 68 | 69 | ### Action items 70 | 71 | ### Discussion items 72 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2024-08-05.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | --- 2 | tags: swg 3 | --- 4 | 5 | SWG 2024-08-05 6 | ============== 7 | 8 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 9 | 10 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2024-07-22.md) 11 | 12 | # Attendees 13 | 14 | - Trevis Elser 15 | - Jappie 16 | - Simon PJ 17 | - Jose Calderon 18 | 19 | 20 | # Agenda & Notes 21 | 22 | ## Items to discuss 23 | 24 | - https://discourse.haskell.org/t/analyzing-haskell-stability/10059/2 25 | - Continuing to explore/gather data in more specifics 26 | - In a couple of weeks: make concrete recommendations vs [Stability Road Map](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 27 | - eg. data shows that simply categorising is very helpful; hence our work on [#669](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/669) 28 | - e.g. Prelude and base re-installable. But see [Ben's comments on this](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/h2z2ELauQs2vzhPDeUDr_g#) 29 | 30 | - https://discourse.haskell.org/t/xmultilinestrings-merged/10087 31 | - What is the stability categorization? 32 | - https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/blob/master/proposals/0601-extension-lifecycle-framework.md 33 | - **Action**. Add a one-sentence amendment fo 601 to say "Any extension introduced b a GHC proposal is presumed Expermiental unless explicitly specified otherwise (in the proposal)" 34 | 35 | - What progress (if any) on an actual categorisation? 36 | 37 | - https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/669, itself based on [this discussion and spreadsheet](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/discussions/635) 38 | - **Action**: some minor edits arising from our conversation + encourage discussion. 39 | 40 | 41 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 42 | 43 | - None 44 | 45 | ## In progress projects 46 | ### Updates 47 | 48 | - JMCT: What would a GitHub mirror that posts to GHC GitLab look like? 49 | 50 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 51 | 52 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects 53 | 54 | ## New for next week 55 | 56 | ### Action items 57 | 58 | ### Discussion items 59 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2024-08-19.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | --- 2 | tags: swg 3 | --- 4 | 5 | SWG 2024-08-19 6 | ============== 7 | 8 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 9 | 10 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2024-08-05.md) 11 | 12 | # Attendees 13 | - Trevis Elser 14 | - Hécate 15 | - Jappie 16 | - Janus 17 | - José 18 | 19 | 20 | # Agenda & Notes 21 | 22 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 23 | 24 | - Minor edits and encourage discussion on [extension classificaiton proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/669). 25 | - Post to discourse, and bring up at ghc weekly 26 | 27 | ## New Items to discuss 28 | 29 | 30 | - Hécate: I recently published a couple of tools to make it easier for maintainers to care about API stability of their package. [You'll see the announcement here](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/maintain-a-golden-test-of-your-packages-api-with-diff-package-api-and-print-api/9997). My idea would be that SWG could promote / recommend tools that can be added to a maintainer's toolbelt with a guarantee of increased software quality as a result. 31 | - Are we hesitant for HF to be "choosing" tools? 32 | - Present it at possible tools 33 | - Let's do it! 34 | - Action item: Trevis to draft how this might look. 35 | 36 | - I am working on bootstraping a Release Engineering team with an ethos focused on serving the end-users and collaborating closely with the tooling teams (which may not share the same ethos due to differing constraints and priorities). Can the SWG help in setting the moral principles that will guide this team? 37 | - Prior art to take inspiration from: https://docs.freebsd.org/en/articles/freebsd-releng/ 38 | - Some guiding ideas: 39 | - Release schedules (not deadlines) 40 | - Clear communication 41 | - Defined/documented release practices 42 | - Defined/documented responsible parties 43 | - Defined/documented dependencies (e.g. cabal depends on ghc which depends on cabal) 44 | - Defined/documented support timeframes 45 | 46 | - Hécate: I am creating a blog on haskell.org for the teams of the Haskell Project, including the SWG. Should you make big announcements or publish reports, it will be a place that will get a lot of visibility and feedback. More than happy to discuss the details during the call. 47 | - Jappie/Trevis to write intro to SWG 48 | 49 | 50 | ## In progress projects 51 | ### Updates 52 | 53 | - JMCT: What would a GitHub mirror that posts to GHC GitLab look like? 54 | 55 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 56 | - Jappie: catagorizing head.hackage https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNAn7qE1X7waI7lAIh9lOUKGuEb9HnRwGWNicaywASk/edit?gid=251085624#gid=251085624 57 | 58 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects 59 | 60 | ## New for next week 61 | 62 | ### Action items 63 | 64 | ### Discussion items 65 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2024-09-16.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | --- 2 | tags: swg 3 | --- 4 | 5 | SWG 2024-09-16 6 | ============== 7 | 8 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 9 | 10 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2024-08-19.md) 11 | 12 | # Attendees 13 | - Trevis Elser 14 | - SPJ 15 | - JMCT 16 | - Jappie 17 | 18 | 19 | # Agenda & Notes 20 | 21 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 22 | 23 | - Minor edits and encourage discussion on [extension classificaiton proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/669). 24 | - Bring up at ghc weekly 25 | - Holding the token: José 26 | 27 | - SWG post for blog.haskell.org 28 | - Holding the token: Trevis 29 | 30 | - Draft tooling recommendation 31 | - Holding the token: Trevis 32 | 33 | ## New Items to discuss 34 | 35 | - NixPkgs 36 | - https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/24518#note_582961 37 | - Is it the case that GHC HQ are not going to update 9.8 at all? Instead encouraging people to jump to 9.10, and skip 9.8 altogether. 38 | - https://www.haskell.org/ghc/blog/20240521-ghc-release-priorities.html says 9.8 will be supported 39 | - Would that be OK? [GHC blog post](https://www.haskell.org/ghc/blog/20240521-ghc-release-priorities.html) said 9.8 would continue to be supported; but Simon's talk at HS'2024 said not. Let's ask, and cause a post to appear to clarify. **Action Jose** 40 | - Tom Ellis's blog posts: 41 | - http://h2.jaguarpaw.co.uk/posts/ghc-8.10-9.6-experience-report/ 42 | - https://h2.jaguarpaw.co.uk/posts/behaviour-changes-flag-day/ 43 | - Invite Simon Marlow to do the same -- Meta has done a similar upgrade cycle recently. 44 | - Still want to better find what are the issues, how can we find them? 45 | - Ben's summary of why it's hard to to get reinstallable `base`: https://edit.smart-cactus.org/h2z2ELauQs2vzhPDeUDr_g# 46 | 47 | 48 | ## In progress projects 49 | ### Updates 50 | 51 | - JMCT: What would a GitHub mirror that posts to GHC GitLab look like? 52 | 53 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 54 | - Jappie: catagorizing head.hackage https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNAn7qE1X7waI7lAIh9lOUKGuEb9HnRwGWNicaywASk/edit?gid=251085624#gid=251085624 55 | 56 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects 57 | 58 | ## New for next week 59 | 60 | ### Action items 61 | 62 | ### Discussion items 63 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2024-09-30.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | --- 2 | tags: swg 3 | --- 4 | 5 | SWG 2024-09-30 6 | ============== 7 | 8 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 9 | 10 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2024-09-16.md) 11 | 12 | # Attendees 13 | - Trevis Elser 14 | - JMCT 15 | - Ben Gamari 16 | - SPJ 17 | 18 | # Agenda & Notes 19 | 20 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 21 | 22 | - Minor edits and encourage discussion on [extension classificaiton proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/669). 23 | - Bring up at ghc weekly 24 | - Expecting feedback soon. 25 | 26 | - SWG post for blog.haskell.org 27 | - In progress! 28 | - Holding the token: Trevis 29 | 30 | ## New Items to discuss 31 | 32 | - [hoogle.haskell.org](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/hoogle-appears-to-be-down/10408) went down. 33 | - Infrastructure stability/availablity is important to community. Can SWG help somehow? 34 | - HF critical infra page 35 | - status.haskell.org? 36 | - Who runs this? If anyone 37 | - Still lists darcs? Is that available? 38 | - Links to https://stats.uptimerobot.com/6YOwyfoV7k which appears broken (is that the same as http://auto-status.haskell.org/?) 39 | - Include how to get in touch with those involved in running/maintaining. 40 | - Holding the token: JMCT 41 | 42 | - [More discussion on GHC releases](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/priorities-for-upcoming-ghc-releases/9605) 43 | - Some misunderstandings here? 44 | - Perhaps a feeling among non-GHC devs that GHC team prioritises agility and experimentation over stability. 45 | - Feedback cycles not matching release cycles. 46 | - E.g. industrial users are on a lagging cycle and/or cannot be current until certain issues are fixed 47 | - More frequent releases may actually *help* stability, by highlighting failures earlier, when they can more easily be corrected. 48 | - Many users are still dealing with the in-the-past-lack-of-attention-to-stability technical debt. *Things really are better now*. 49 | 50 | - One possible action: 51 | - Support up to 3 branches other than HEAD 52 | - Of these, **designate one as LTS**. 53 | - Support LTS for (say) at least 2 yrs beyond release, a year after designation. 54 | - As LTS branch becomes older, the bar for backporting goes up... 55 | - ...and in any case only applies to Stable features. 56 | - Talk with ghcup team about when to designate a new LTS release, and which -- so that it can be the recommended release from moment of designation. 57 | - List of necessary but not sufficent requirements 58 | - e.g. Stackage LTS exists for this release 59 | - e.g. works with HLS 60 | - more controversial: buildable on tier-2 platforms 61 | 62 | - Problem: if we (implicitly) encourage users to do "big jumps" from one LTS release to the next, they won't get deprecation warnings, etc. from intermediate releases. 63 | - Ben and Andreas will discuss the meta-proposal described here (see "one possible action" above): 64 | - Perhaps designate a release (well into its lifecycle) as an LTS 65 | - Stable features in LTSs receive backports for a year after designation 66 | 67 | 68 | ## In progress projects 69 | ### Updates 70 | 71 | - Draft tooling recommendation 72 | - Holding the token: Trevis 73 | 74 | 75 | - JMCT: What would a GitHub mirror that posts to GHC GitLab look like? 76 | 77 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 78 | - Jappie: catagorizing head.hackage https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNAn7qE1X7waI7lAIh9lOUKGuEb9HnRwGWNicaywASk/edit?gid=251085624#gid=251085624 79 | 80 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects 81 | 82 | ## New for next week 83 | 84 | ### Action items 85 | 86 | ### Discussion items 87 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2024-10-14.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | --- 2 | tags: swg 3 | --- 4 | 5 | SWG 2024-10-14 6 | ============== 7 | 8 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 9 | 10 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2024-09-30.md) 11 | 12 | # Attendees 13 | - Trevis Elser 14 | - SPJ 15 | 16 | # Agenda & Notes 17 | 18 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 19 | 20 | - Minor edits, discussion on [extension classificaiton proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/669). 21 | 22 | - HF critical infra page 23 | - Previously holding the token: JMCT 24 | 25 | - GHC LTS 26 | - Previously holding the token: Ben 27 | 28 | - SWG post for blog.haskell.org 29 | - In progress! 30 | - Holding the token: Trevis 31 | 32 | ## New Items to discuss 33 | 34 | - `StarIsType` deprecation [issue](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/25040) 35 | 36 | ## In progress projects 37 | ### Updates 38 | 39 | - Draft tooling recommendation 40 | - Holding the token: Trevis 41 | 42 | 43 | - JMCT: What would a GitHub mirror that posts to GHC GitLab look like? 44 | 45 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 46 | - Jappie: catagorizing head.hackage https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNAn7qE1X7waI7lAIh9lOUKGuEb9HnRwGWNicaywASk/edit?gid=251085624#gid=251085624 47 | 48 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects 49 | 50 | ## New for next week 51 | 52 | - https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/25326 53 | - How can we best add value in this group? 54 | - Increase participation 55 | - Trevis: Solicit invites 56 | 57 | ### Action items 58 | 59 | ### Discussion items 60 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2024-10-28.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | --- 2 | tags: swg 3 | --- 4 | 5 | SWG 2024-10-28 6 | ============== 7 | 8 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 9 | 10 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2024-10-14.md) 11 | 12 | # Attendees 13 | 14 | # Agenda & Notes 15 | 16 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 17 | 18 | - Minor edits, discussion on [extension classification proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/669). 19 | 20 | - Implicit `base` linking 21 | - Two possiblities: 22 | 1. implicitly behave as if you had said `-package base-XXXX`; i.e. a *particular* unit-id; or 23 | 2. implicitly behave as if you'd said `-package base`. 24 | 25 | In 9.12 you can't distinguish these two (since there is still only one `base`); but in the future there could be many. 26 | 27 | Fixing on `XXXX` makes precise what you get, without talking about package-database resolution questions. This what GHC team is planning to do. See [merge request](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/merge_requests/13492) 28 | 29 | Users need to know which version of `base` is gotten when you don't specify `-package-anything`. (Perhaps just in the user manual; e.g. [here](https://downloads.haskell.org/ghc/latest/docs/users_guide/9.10.1-notes.html#included-libraries).) 30 | 31 | - HF critical infra page 32 | - Previously holding the token: JMCT 33 | 34 | - GHC LTS 35 | - Previously holding the token: Ben 36 | 37 | - SWG post for blog.haskell.org 38 | - In progress! 39 | - Holding the token: Trevis 40 | 41 | ## New Items to discuss 42 | 43 | - [role of `ghc-experimental`](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/25326) 44 | 45 | * SPJ proposal: 46 | * Baseline position: `ghc-experimental` exposes *all the user-facing stuff that we (GHC team) want to expose, but that the CLC does not yet want to include in base* 47 | * The APIs in `ghc-experimental` have widely-differing stability; some have been stable for years, others are brand new. 48 | * `ghc-experimental`'s version bumps with every GHC release. 49 | * The GHC team makes reasonable efforts not to change the `ghc-experimental` API, but nothing like the efforts that the CLC makes to keep `base` stable. 50 | * It might help to publish one or more shims that expose APIs (that are not desired in `base`) that have somewhat stronger stability goals. That wouldn't be hard, but would take design and negotiation. We have some examples already: `ghc-heap`, `ghc-compact` 51 | * Add warnings (via deprecations) saying that if you import (say) `GHC.Experimental.Heap` you'd be better off importing `GHC.Heap` from `ghc-heap`; doing so reduces your exposure to version bumps. 52 | * Optionally: eventually remove from `ghc-experimental` APIs that are available via the above shim packages. Advantages: less confusion for users; and reduction in the need to bump the version of `ghc-experimental` 53 | * Perhaps the GHC team should, more proactively than in the past, identify stable APIs and group them into shims. E.g. `ghc-rts` 54 | * Shim packages should come with explicitly-stated stability goals; e.g. changes will typically be deprecated before changing. 55 | 56 | 57 | - `StarIsType` deprecation [issue](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/25040) 58 | - Have a deprecation cycle 59 | 60 | ## In progress projects 61 | ### Updates 62 | 63 | - Draft tooling recommendation 64 | - Holding the token: Trevis 65 | 66 | 67 | - JMCT: What would a GitHub mirror that posts to GHC GitLab look like? 68 | 69 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 70 | - Jappie: catagorizing head.hackage https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNAn7qE1X7waI7lAIh9lOUKGuEb9HnRwGWNicaywASk/edit?gid=251085624#gid=251085624 71 | 72 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects 73 | 74 | ## New for next week 75 | 76 | ### Action items 77 | 78 | ### Discussion items 79 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2024-11-11.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | --- 2 | tags: swg 3 | --- 4 | 5 | SWG 2024-11-11 6 | ============== 7 | 8 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 9 | 10 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2024-10-28.md) 11 | 12 | # Attendees 13 | 14 | - Trevis 15 | - JMCT 16 | 17 | # Agenda & Notes 18 | 19 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 20 | 21 | - Minor edits, discussion on [extension classification proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/669). 22 | 23 | - HF critical infra page 24 | - Previously holding the token: JMCT 25 | 26 | - GHC LTS 27 | - Previously holding the token: Ben 28 | 29 | - SWG post for blog.haskell.org 30 | - In progress! 31 | - Holding the token: Trevis 32 | 33 | ## New Items to discuss 34 | 35 | - https://discourse.haskell.org/t/wiki-haskell-org-is-down/10664 36 | 37 | ## In progress projects 38 | ### Updates 39 | 40 | - Draft tooling recommendation 41 | - Holding the token: Trevis 42 | 43 | - JMCT: What would a GitHub mirror that posts to GHC GitLab look like? 44 | 45 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 46 | - Jappie: catagorizing head.hackage https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNAn7qE1X7waI7lAIh9lOUKGuEb9HnRwGWNicaywASk/edit?gid=251085624#gid=251085624 47 | 48 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects 49 | 50 | ## New for next week 51 | 52 | ### Action items 53 | 54 | ### Discussion items 55 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2024-11-25.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | --- 2 | tags: swg 3 | --- 4 | 5 | SWG 2024-11-25 6 | ============== 7 | 8 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 9 | 10 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2024-11-11.md) 11 | 12 | # Attendees 13 | 14 | - Trevis 15 | - Ben 16 | - SPJ 17 | 18 | # Agenda & Notes 19 | 20 | - How can we help GHC distribution channels? https://github.com/haskell/ghcup-metadata/issues/255 21 | - How can we help find issues earlier? 22 | - This group/HF could be a bridge to distribution channels/packagers and ghc, reaching out to get closer involvement between the groups. 23 | - Reviving [language features for stability](https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw) 24 | - Some of these have landed! 25 | - Reach out in blog post for help implementing/championing these 26 | - Would help to find past breakages that could have been mitigated by these. 27 | 28 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 29 | 30 | - Minor edits, discussion on [extension classification proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/669). 31 | 32 | - GHC LTS 33 | - Previously holding the token: Ben 34 | - https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/25496 35 | - 36 | 37 | - SWG post for blog.haskell.org 38 | - In progress! 39 | - Holding the token: Trevis 40 | 41 | ## New Items to discuss 42 | 43 | - https://discourse.haskell.org/t/wiki-haskell-org-is-down/10664 44 | 45 | ## In progress projects 46 | ### Updates 47 | 48 | - Draft tooling recommendation 49 | - Holding the token: Trevis 50 | 51 | - JMCT: What would a GitHub mirror that posts to GHC GitLab look like? 52 | 53 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 54 | - Jappie: catagorizing head.hackage https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNAn7qE1X7waI7lAIh9lOUKGuEb9HnRwGWNicaywASk/edit?gid=251085624#gid=251085624 55 | 56 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects 57 | 58 | ## New for next week 59 | 60 | ### Action items 61 | 62 | ### Discussion items 63 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2024-12-09.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | --- 2 | tags: swg 3 | --- 4 | 5 | SWG 2024-12-09 6 | ============== 7 | 8 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 9 | 10 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2024-11-25.md) 11 | 12 | # Attendees 13 | 14 | - Trevis 15 | - SPJ 16 | 17 | # Agenda & Notes 18 | 19 | - Planning for EOY: 20 | - Next meeting would be scheduled for December 23rd, should we skip? Yes. 21 | 22 | - [GHC release management document](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yHN6Tct5cdO2l_zwD5KYnYS-hc4R7qNnQZSicXCkZSw/edit?usp=sharing). 23 | 24 | - GHC 9.8.4 released! 25 | - Is it worthwhile for someone to write up some learnings/moving forward as a result of this? 26 | - Relates to ongoing GHC release management discussions 27 | - Can we make this "lessons learned" post part of a forward looking post about the new GHC release management doc. "We learned these lessons, and here is how we are putting them into action." 28 | - Mabye the release-management policy doc should be in this repo: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc-hq 29 | 30 | - [Renovate](https://github.com/renovatebot/renovate) support for cabal https://github.com/renovatebot/renovate/discussions/31493 31 | - Gaining support in more industry settings. 32 | - How can we promote/expand this sort of adoption? 33 | - Invite ysangkok to a meeting to talk about what they are doing. 34 | - Publicisise on Discourse? 35 | 36 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 37 | 38 | - Minor edits, discussion on [extension classification proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/669). 39 | 40 | - GHC LTS 41 | - Previously holding the token: Ben 42 | - https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/25496 43 | 44 | - SWG post for blog.haskell.org 45 | - In progress! 46 | - Holding the token: Trevis 47 | 48 | ## New Items to discuss 49 | 50 | - https://discourse.haskell.org/t/wiki-haskell-org-is-down/10664 51 | 52 | ## In progress projects 53 | ### Updates 54 | 55 | - Draft tooling recommendation 56 | - Holding the token: Trevis 57 | 58 | - JMCT: What would a GitHub mirror that posts to GHC GitLab look like? 59 | 60 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 61 | - Jappie: catagorizing head.hackage https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNAn7qE1X7waI7lAIh9lOUKGuEb9HnRwGWNicaywASk/edit?gid=251085624#gid=251085624 62 | 63 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects 64 | 65 | ## New for next week 66 | 67 | ### Action items 68 | 69 | ### Discussion items 70 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2025-01-06.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | --- 2 | tags: swg 3 | --- 4 | 5 | SWG 2025-01-06 6 | ============== 7 | 8 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 9 | 10 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2024-12-09.md) 11 | 12 | # Attendees 13 | 14 | - Trevis 15 | - Jose Calderon 16 | - SPJ 17 | - Jappie 18 | - Ben 19 | 20 | # Agenda & Notes 21 | 22 | - [GHC API stability](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/ghc-api-stability-update-1/11033) 23 | - Can/should we help coordinate or assist? 24 | - JMCT will get the SWG plugged into what's going on with the GHC API 25 | - No need for the SWG to interfere in anway, it's about keeping up to date with what they're doing and offering support. 26 | 27 | - GHC 9.12.1 and Cabal 3.14 released 28 | - Any lesson to be learned from Cabal needing a point release so quickly? 29 | - they forgot to bump: https://github.com/haskell/cabal/pull/10656/files 30 | - JMCT will speak with Hecate about the release and see if there are ways to prevent same issue in the future. 31 | 32 | - [GHC release management document](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yHN6Tct5cdO2l_zwD5KYnYS-hc4R7qNnQZSicXCkZSw/edit?usp=sharing). 33 | 34 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 35 | 36 | - Minor edits, discussion on [extension classification proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/669). 37 | 38 | - GHC LTS 39 | - Previously holding the token: Ben 40 | - https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/25496 41 | - 42 | 43 | - SWG post for blog.haskell.org 44 | - In progress! 45 | - Holding the token: Trevis 46 | 47 | ## In progress projects 48 | ### Updates 49 | 50 | - Draft tooling recommendation 51 | - Holding the token: Trevis 52 | 53 | - JMCT: What would a GitHub mirror that posts to GHC GitLab look like? 54 | 55 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 56 | - Jappie: catagorizing head.hackage https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNAn7qE1X7waI7lAIh9lOUKGuEb9HnRwGWNicaywASk/edit?gid=251085624#gid=251085624 57 | 58 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects 59 | 60 | ## New for next week 61 | 62 | ### Action items 63 | 64 | ### Discussion items 65 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2025-01-20.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | --- 2 | tags: swg 3 | --- 4 | 5 | SWG 2025-01-20 6 | ============== 7 | 8 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 9 | 10 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2025-01-06.md) 11 | 12 | # Attendees 13 | 14 | - Trevis 15 | - Janus 16 | - Ben 17 | - Simon PJ 18 | - Jappie 19 | 20 | # Agenda & Notes 21 | 22 | - Renovate support for cabal (a dependency bounds bumper) 23 | - Github source code: https://github.com/renovatebot/renovate 24 | - Producty (less technical) landing page at https://www.mend.io/renovate/ 25 | - Cabal feature documented at: https://docs.renovatebot.com/modules/manager/haskell-cabal/ 26 | - The problem we are trying to solve: 27 | - You are author of library L, which depends on `bytestring` 28 | - `bytestring` has a new release 29 | - `renovatebot` polls Hackage, and proactively offers you a PR for *your* libary `L.cabal` file that updates you to the new `bytestring`. 30 | - Moreover, this is a SaaS service you can sign up for; no need to install anything. 31 | - SaaS signup flow at https://github.com/apps/renovate 32 | * Documentation is available but people don't have to have read it to use the SaaS 33 | - What does this get us as a community? 34 | - "Another place where we are meeting industry". Dependency updates Industrial best practice already uses `renovate` ( or something similar like `dependabot`). 35 | - A path to automate some library authors' work. Less friction, easier to get library updates done (at least for library authors that buy into `renovate`). 36 | - Timely (i.e. earlier) signalling to library authors that new versions of your dependencies are available, so you might want to get on with updating your package. 37 | - Related to the [Hackage e-mail notification for dependencies](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/hackage-dep-bound-notifications-and-uploader-endorsements-for-new-users/8342?u=janus) 38 | 39 | - [GHC 9.12.1 correctness issue](https://discourse.haskell.org/t/psa-correctness-issue-in-ghc-9-12/11204/1) 40 | - Is this a testing/CI gap? 41 | - Cabal change caused a test suite to not to be run 42 | - there was a bug in cabal 43 | the test suite in primops worked around the bug with a patch 44 | the bug was fixed in cabal 45 | this disabled the primops test suite 46 | which caused a while to be detected. 47 | which caused a bug to be slipped in within the GHC runtime 48 | - the change: https://github.com/haskell/cabal/pull/9061 49 | - 9.12.2 should be out in a few weeks 50 | - Are there other workarounds like this lurking? 51 | - How easy is it to find similar workarounds? 52 | - Can the workarounds be more robust? 53 | - No way to block a portion of a cabal file with a version of cabal. 54 | - This is currently unknown 55 | - Can we collect these like the breakage inventories? 56 | 57 | - Status of [GHC release policy doc](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc-hq/-/merge_requests/38) 58 | - Review and revision in progress 59 | 60 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 61 | 62 | - Minor edits, discussion on [extension classification proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/669). 63 | 64 | - 65 | - SWG post for blog.haskell.org 66 | - In progress! 67 | - Holding the token: Trevis 68 | 69 | ## In progress projects 70 | ### Updates 71 | 72 | - Draft tooling recommendation 73 | - Holding the token: Trevis 74 | 75 | - JMCT: What would a GitHub mirror that posts to GHC GitLab look like? 76 | 77 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 78 | - Jappie: catagorizing head.hackage https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNAn7qE1X7waI7lAIh9lOUKGuEb9HnRwGWNicaywASk/edit?gid=251085624#gid=251085624 79 | 80 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects 81 | 82 | ## New for next week 83 | 84 | ### Action items 85 | 86 | ### Discussion items 87 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2025-02-03.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | --- 2 | tags: swg 3 | --- 4 | 5 | SWG 2025-02-03 6 | ============== 7 | 8 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 9 | 10 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2025-01-20.md) 11 | 12 | # Attendees 13 | 14 | - Trevis 15 | - Ben 16 | - SPJ 17 | 18 | # Agenda & Notes 19 | 20 | - [GHC release policy doc](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc-hq/-/merge_requests/38) 21 | 22 | - GHC release documentation (TODOs) 23 | - [x] Add a column to the GHC status table on https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/GHC-Status to include the download link. 24 | - [x] Release notes could identify major exerimental features (e.g. JavaScript backend): see #25721 25 | 26 | - In that status table, when does (say) 9.2 go from yellow "stable but no releases planned" to red "not recommended"? Define these terms: 27 | - "Current major series": the main released compiler 28 | - "Stable major series:": the previous version of the main released compiler. 29 | - "Stable:" you can rely in this compiler, and we will actively backport bug-fixes to it. 30 | - "No further releases planned". We do not know of any serious reasons for not using this version, but we are no actively porting bug fixes to it. That said, if there is a serious bug (especially security bug), and one that impacts users, we would consider making a release to fix it. 31 | - "Not recommended:" because we will not make any further releases even for major bugs. 32 | 33 | - What does "Current stable releases" mean on https://www.haskell.org/ghc/download.html 34 | - [x] Idea: kill off that page in favour of GHC Status page https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/GHC-Status 35 | - [ ] Also: kill off https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/working-conventions/releases in favour of the new release-practices https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc-hq/-/merge_requests/38 36 | - [ ] Also: move "Release practices" in https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/GHC-Status into the new release-practices https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc-hq/-/merge_requests/38 37 | 38 | - When does a compiler drop off the table entirely? Really just when the table gets too long. 39 | 40 | - Some discussion about how to make progress on 41 | - reinstallable base 42 | - Template Haskell incompatibilities 43 | 44 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 45 | 46 | - Minor edits, discussion on [extension classification proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/669). 47 | 48 | - SWG post for blog.haskell.org 49 | - In progress! 50 | - Holding the token: Trevis 51 | 52 | ## In progress projects 53 | ### Updates 54 | 55 | - Draft tooling recommendation 56 | - Holding the token: Trevis 57 | 58 | - JMCT: What would a GitHub mirror that posts to GHC GitLab look like? 59 | 60 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 61 | - Jappie: catagorizing head.hackage https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNAn7qE1X7waI7lAIh9lOUKGuEb9HnRwGWNicaywASk/edit?gid=251085624#gid=251085624 62 | 63 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects 64 | 65 | ## New for next week 66 | 67 | ### Action items 68 | 69 | ### Discussion items 70 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2025-02-17.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | --- 2 | tags: swg 3 | --- 4 | 5 | SWG 2025-02-17 6 | ============== 7 | 8 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 9 | 10 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2025-02-03.md) 11 | 12 | # Attendees 13 | 14 | - Trevis 15 | - JMCT 16 | 17 | # Agenda & Notes 18 | 19 | - Administrative point, can someone else run the meeting for the 17th of March? 20 | - JMCT can if needed. 21 | 22 | - Paraphrasing a comment made: GHC 9.8 is abandoned, the status says no further releases. 23 | - Some communication clarity is needed. 24 | 25 | - hie file format stability question: 26 | We have been experiencing pain on every ghc upgrade with hie files. We use stan and weeder which both demand the version of hie files match exactly the ghc version. Is there anyone working on making those files use a stable format? 27 | - JMCT to bring up with Andreas Klebinger 28 | 29 | - [GHC release policy doc](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc-hq/-/merge_requests/38) 30 | 31 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 32 | 33 | - Minor edits, discussion on [extension classification proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/669). 34 | 35 | - SWG post for blog.haskell.org 36 | - In progress! 37 | - Holding the token: Trevis 38 | 39 | ## In progress projects 40 | ### Updates 41 | 42 | - Draft tooling recommendation 43 | - Holding the token: Trevis 44 | 45 | - JMCT: What would a GitHub mirror that posts to GHC GitLab look like? 46 | 47 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 48 | - Jappie: catagorizing head.hackage https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNAn7qE1X7waI7lAIh9lOUKGuEb9HnRwGWNicaywASk/edit?gid=251085624#gid=251085624 49 | 50 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects 51 | 52 | ## New for next week 53 | 54 | ### Action items 55 | 56 | ### Discussion items 57 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2025-03-03.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | --- 2 | tags: swg 3 | --- 4 | 5 | SWG 2025-03-03 6 | ============== 7 | 8 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 9 | 10 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2025-02-17.md) 11 | 12 | # Attendees 13 | 14 | - Trevis 15 | - SPJ 16 | - Ben 17 | - Jappie 18 | 19 | # Agenda & Notes 20 | 21 | - Administrative point, can someone else run the meeting for the 17th of March? 22 | - Will skip this meeting 23 | 24 | - Need a clear plan for reinstallable base and template-haskell 25 | - If we articulate a plan, maybe volunteers would step up to execute. 26 | - https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/24021 27 | - Plan: https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/wikis/template-haskell/Plan-to-Stabilise-Template-Haskell 28 | - e.g. https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/20828 29 | - Also issue of HIE files -- how stable is the HIE format? 30 | - Pretty stable; but we do extend it from time to time, which is usually a breaking change. 31 | - We want an old version of `weeder` (say) to work with a new version of GHC (and its HIE files) 32 | - Maybe provide a HIE libarary that can read lots of HIE versions into TH syntax? 33 | 34 | - Invite Teo to speak with us on the next steps, at 31st or later 35 | - holding the token: Ben 36 | 37 | - Paraphrasing a comment made: GHC 9.8 is abandoned, the status says no further releases. 38 | - Some communication clarity is needed. 39 | 40 | - Status page release messaging 41 | 42 | Trevis has found that users are consistently misunderstanding our current status page phrasing. 43 | 44 | Arguably conflates two axes: stability and release planning. 45 | 46 | - Taxonomy 1 (Trevis) 47 | 48 | * Blue circle: Under active development, Suitable for use (9.12, 9.10, 9.6) 49 | * Green circle: Suitable for use (9.8) 50 | * Red square: Not recommended for use (9.4, 9.2) 51 | 52 | - Taxonomy 2 (Trevis) 53 | 54 | * Suitable for use 55 | * Not recommended for use 56 | 57 | - Taxonomy 3 (Python) 58 | 59 | * Under development (listed as 'Feature') 60 | * Bugfix 61 | * Security 62 | 63 | 64 | Classes of security issues in order of increasing severity: 65 | * Affecting compiler (e.g. compilation is exploitable) 66 | * Affecting bundled libraries (e.g. `filepath`); two sub-classes 67 | * Affecting only reinstallable libraries 68 | * Affecting non-reinstallable libraries 69 | * Affecting compiler output 70 | 71 | - Taxonomy 4 (Trevis + Ben) 72 | - Next planned release 73 | * (link to milestone and if exists link to tracking ticket) 74 | * "None planned" 75 | * "None" 76 | - Status 77 | * Blue circle: Suitable for use (9.12,9.10,9.8,9.6) 78 | * Red square: Not recommended for use (9.4,9.2) 79 | Some advantages of this approach: 80 | - Does not mix concerns 81 | - No new columns/complexity displayed 82 | - two visual separations for suitability so hopefully anyone that has visual issues can still tell them apart 83 | - allows for nuance around further releases, i.e. if one is not expected versus one that will not happen 84 | 85 | - [GHC release policy doc](https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc-hq/-/merge_requests/38) 86 | 87 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 88 | 89 | - hie file format stability question: 90 | We have been experiencing pain on every ghc upgrade with hie files. We use stan and weeder which both demand the version of hie files match exactly the ghc version. Is there anyone working on making those files use a stable format? 91 | - JMCT to bring up with Andreas Klebinger 92 | 93 | - Minor edits, discussion on [extension classification proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/669). 94 | 95 | - SWG post for blog.haskell.org 96 | - In progress! 97 | - Holding the token: Trevis 98 | 99 | ## In progress projects 100 | ### Updates 101 | 102 | - Draft tooling recommendation 103 | - Holding the token: Trevis 104 | 105 | - JMCT: What would a GitHub mirror that posts to GHC GitLab look like? 106 | 107 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 108 | - Jappie: catagorizing head.hackage https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNAn7qE1X7waI7lAIh9lOUKGuEb9HnRwGWNicaywASk/edit?gid=251085624#gid=251085624 109 | 110 | 111 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects 112 | 113 | ## New for next week 114 | 115 | ### Action items 116 | 117 | ### Discussion items 118 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2025-03-31.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | --- 2 | tags: swg 3 | --- 4 | 5 | SWG 2025-03-31 6 | ============== 7 | 8 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 9 | 10 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2025-03-03.md) 11 | 12 | # Attendees 13 | 14 | - Trevis 15 | - Jose Calderon 16 | - Ben Gamari 17 | - SPJ 18 | - Dan Firth 19 | 20 | # Agenda & Notes 21 | 22 | ## New items 23 | 24 | - [cabal and ghc 9.12](https://github.com/haskell/cabal/issues/10836) 25 | - Cabal 3.14 released (a few months ago) specifically allowing usage with newer GHCs. 26 | - Earlier versions of Cabal cannot work with 9.12. 27 | - Generally each new version of GHC will require a new version of cabal. 28 | - Why? One reason is that Cabal knows the list of extensions that GHC supports (and earlier GHCs, and other Haskell impls). 29 | - This coupling seems unnecessarily tight -- **indeed we'd like to say that upgrading GHC does not *usually* require a new version of cabal**. 30 | - (There may be some one-off reasons that would force an upgrade of cabal, but it should be the exception rather than the rule.) 31 | - Alas, had regressions, and is unusable with 9.12. 32 | - Actual issues are fixed; but cabal team lacks resources to make a release. Indeed cabal lacks a release manager at the moment. 33 | - A cabal release can take a month. (Effort or elapsed? We aren't sure.) Quite a lot of manual QA to do. 34 | - Julian produced a quick-fix for 3.14 which he release via `ghcup`, namely `cabal 3.14.1-p1`. (Debian does things like this too; but it'd be better do to it upstream.) 35 | - NB: there is a difference between `cabal-install` (the command-line build tool) and `cabal` the library. Forcing an upgrade of the library is less disruptive than forcing an upgrade of the command-line build tool. 36 | 37 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 38 | 39 | - SWG post for blog.haskell.org 40 | - Posted now! 41 | 42 | - hie file format stability question: 43 | We have been experiencing pain on every ghc upgrade with hie files. We use stan and weeder which both demand the version of hie files match exactly the ghc version. Is there anyone working on making those files use a stable format? 44 | - JMCT to bring up with Andreas Klebinger 45 | - https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/18329 46 | 47 | - Do the changes to GHC that require a `cabal` update also effect `stack` in the same way? 48 | - JMCT to bring up with Mike P. 49 | 50 | - See what the HF can do about the gap in cabal release management. 51 | - JMCT to investigate. 52 | 53 | - Minor edits, discussion on [extension classification proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/669). 54 | 55 | 56 | ## In progress projects 57 | ### Updates 58 | 59 | - Draft tooling recommendation 60 | - Holding the token: Trevis 61 | 62 | - JMCT: What would a GitHub mirror that posts to GHC GitLab look like? 63 | 64 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 65 | - Jappie: catagorizing head.hackage https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNAn7qE1X7waI7lAIh9lOUKGuEb9HnRwGWNicaywASk/edit?gid=251085624#gid=251085624 66 | 67 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects 68 | 69 | ## New for next week 70 | 71 | ### Action items 72 | 73 | ### Discussion items 74 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2025-04-14.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | --- 2 | tags: swg 3 | --- 4 | 5 | SWG 2025-04-14 6 | ============== 7 | 8 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 9 | 10 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2025-03-31.md) 11 | 12 | # Attendees 13 | 14 | - Trevis Elser 15 | - Ben Gamari 16 | - Teo Camarasu 17 | - Jose Calderon 18 | - Simon Peyton Jones 19 | 20 | # Agenda & Notes 21 | 22 | ## New items 23 | 24 | - TemplateHaskell 25 | - Teo wrote up some notes about next steps here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gui1YXOvrNihR3NpXuMVCKV3lTkKPL8y_HDRjbZyRxk/edit?tab=t.0 26 | - https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/merge_requests/13569 27 | - Library authors could depend on these new libraries instead of template-haskell directly, so a more stable interface, less version bound bumping! 28 | - Is there a reason to have these as separate libraries? They expose some of the same types, so could they be merged? 29 | - Ensuring compatibility gets harder 30 | - Present this as a proposal to community for more feedback 31 | - Engage CLC to give a heads up 32 | - Teo to create a ghc-proposal for the 3+ library solution 33 | 34 | - ghc-9.6.7 and new flags 35 | - New flags being added to a point release, but how to _consistently_ say when they are available? 36 | - If user's guide says "Since 9.6.7" should readers expect flags to be available in _some_ release of 9.8, 9.10, or 9.12? 37 | 38 | 39 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 40 | 41 | - hie file format stability question: 42 | We have been experiencing pain on every ghc upgrade with hie files. We use stan and weeder which both demand the version of hie files match exactly the ghc version. Is there anyone working on making those files use a stable format? 43 | - JMCT to bring up with Andreas Klebinger 44 | - https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/18329 45 | 46 | - Do the changes to GHC that require a `cabal` update also effect `stack` in the same way? 47 | - JMCT to bring up with Mike P. 48 | 49 | - See what the HF can do about the gap in cabal release management. 50 | - JMCT to investigate. 51 | 52 | - Minor edits, discussion on [extension classification proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/669). 53 | 54 | 55 | ## In progress projects 56 | ### Updates 57 | 58 | - Draft tooling recommendation 59 | - Holding the token: Trevis 60 | 61 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 62 | 63 | - Jappie: catagorizing head.hackage https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNAn7qE1X7waI7lAIh9lOUKGuEb9HnRwGWNicaywASk/edit?gid=251085624#gid=251085624 64 | 65 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects 66 | 67 | ## New for next week 68 | 69 | ### Action items 70 | 71 | ### Discussion items 72 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/2025-04-28.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | --- 2 | tags: swg 3 | --- 4 | 5 | SWG 2025-04-28 6 | ============== 7 | 8 | Meeting URL: https://meet.jit.si/StableHaskellMeetBiWeekly 9 | 10 | Previous meeting [notes](https://github.com/haskellfoundation/stability/blob/main/meetings/2025-04-14.md) 11 | 12 | # Attendees 13 | - Teo Camarasu 14 | - Trevis Elser 15 | - Jappie Klooster 16 | - Ben 17 | 18 | # Agenda & Notes 19 | 20 | ## New items 21 | 22 | - ghc-9.6.7 and new flags 23 | - New flags being added to a point release, but how to _consistently_ say when they are available? 24 | - If user's guide says "Since 9.6.7" should readers expect flags to be available in _some_ release of 9.8, 9.10, or 9.12? 25 | - The specific flags here are a very tricky situation 26 | - Flags added to a (A.B).C release should be added to all new releases for (D.E) branches where (D.E) > (A.B) 27 | - To do: MR against https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc-hq/-/blob/main/release-management.mkd?ref_type=heads setting out this invariant 28 | - See also: https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/blob/master/principles.rst#33stability-gr1 29 | 30 | - Teo has written up a GHC proposal to spllit out some stable libraries from `template-haskell`: https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/696 31 | - Add thoughts and comments 32 | - Bring up at the next meeting 33 | 34 | - Discussed HIE AST split 35 | - Split out AST into separate package, keeping design unchanged. 36 | - Ben suspects that a proposal isn't strictly needed here 37 | 38 | - Monad of no return https://github.com/haskell/core-libraries-committee/issues/328 39 | - Suggestion: maybe make the warnings cause an error for a couple of releases before doing this change. 40 | - These methods (return/mappend) should probably be seperate proposals so they're easier to accept. 41 | - it's discussed earlier: (meth on meth) https://edit.smart-cactus.org/jeFTSfj9SRun6ywmj1Tqcw# 42 | - Tricky cases w.r.t. introducing suppressable error for non-canonical definitions: https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/687#discussion_r2029812269 43 | 44 | 45 | ## Short-Term Action Items From Previous 46 | 47 | - hie file format stability question: 48 | We have been experiencing pain on every ghc upgrade with hie files. We use stan and weeder which both demand the version of hie files match exactly the ghc version. Is there anyone working on making those files use a stable format? 49 | - JMCT to bring up with Andreas Klebinger 50 | - https://gitlab.haskell.org/ghc/ghc/-/issues/18329 51 | 52 | - Do the changes to GHC that require a `cabal` update also effect `stack` in the same way? 53 | - JMCT to bring up with Mike P. 54 | 55 | - See what the HF can do about the gap in cabal release management. 56 | - JMCT to investigate. 57 | 58 | - Minor edits, discussion on [extension classification proposal](https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/669). 59 | 60 | 61 | ## In progress projects 62 | ### Updates 63 | 64 | - Draft tooling recommendation 65 | - Holding the token: Trevis 66 | 67 | - [Simon's list of GHC-related stability issues](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sX_rXHx8Mj3Kae9GalR2BwZ5-xzl7UpnpMBwl4dqsWY/edit?usp=sharing) 68 | 69 | - Jappie: catagorizing head.hackage https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNAn7qE1X7waI7lAIh9lOUKGuEb9HnRwGWNicaywASk/edit?gid=251085624#gid=251085624 70 | 71 | ## Parked Action Items/Projects 72 | 73 | ## New for next week 74 | 75 | ### Action items 76 | 77 | ### Discussion items 78 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/README.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | # Meetings 2 | 3 | This folder contains a record of our calls. 4 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/docx/2022-02-07.docx: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- https://raw.githubusercontent.com/haskellfoundation/stability/fcea3af2b6efe8453ca5ad204827aba94aa50d31/meetings/docx/2022-02-07.docx -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /meetings/docx/2022-02-21.docx: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- https://raw.githubusercontent.com/haskellfoundation/stability/fcea3af2b6efe8453ca5ad204827aba94aa50d31/meetings/docx/2022-02-21.docx -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /proposals/README.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | # Proposals 2 | 3 | This folder contains material related to ongoing SWG proposals. 4 | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /proposals/work-in-progress-proposals.md: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 | # Work In Progress Proposals 2 | 3 | This serves to collect proposals as rough idea sketches that have been brought up in working group meetings. As such this is not a complete proposal that the community could act on, but rather a collection of items that could become many proposals in the future. 4 | 5 | The ideas are roughly grouped where possible. 6 | 7 | ## Extend Hackage 8 | 9 | Many ideas are extensions to Hackage in some form. 10 | 11 | - Allow maintainers to be notified when a dependency has been uploaded that falls out of range. 12 | - Show consumers of a particular export of a given package. 13 | This allows maintainers to see the impact of a change they wish to make and give information for more informed changes. 14 | - Allow for opt-in PVP enforcement and display if packaage has opted-in. 15 | 16 | ## GHC Releases 17 | 18 | Several ideas on GHC release scheduling have been discussed and could be more formally proposed. 19 | 20 | - Yearly GHC releases 21 | - A dependable release cycle with a set release month or months 22 | 23 | ## Other Ideas 24 | - Introduce language and compiler features to facilitate evolution of libraries without breaking users. 25 | - State formally a goal of evolution and breaking changes 26 | >Write in some official place (Haskell.org or at least haskell.foundation) something like "One of the Haskell goals is to constantly evolve and this implies having breaking changes from time to time". This statement helps to align community expectations with common goals and values. Additionally, this reduces burnout of maintainers because they at least know what to expect (to some degree). 27 | - Support Stackage LTS in some fashion 28 | --------------------------------------------------------------------------------